========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:32:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Gifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt After reading Last Flight and looking again through the available materials in the Purdue collection - at least those available via the internet - I have begun to wonder more about the Benedictine bottle. Earhart and Noonan flew through a number of territories under French control and obviously got on very well with many of the administrative people with whom they had contact. There is nothing written suggesting that a gift was made of a bottle of Benedictine, but it's another of those possibilities that would explain the presence of a sextant box AND a Benedictine bottle being found with the bones. This is just idle thought, but I recall that the Benedictine bottle was the subject of some rather intense discussion at one point. Th' WOMBAT **************************************************************************** From Ric Could have been a gift, could have been Fred's stash, or could have been a beachcombing find. The strangest thing about the bottle is that it seems to have disappeared in Tarawa. The last we hear of it, the Acting Administrative Officer in Tarawa (Wernham) has taken it away from Koata. It is never even mentioned in the telegrams to Fiji. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:05:47 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Benedictine bottle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Dawson This may be something of a stretch, but Fred's good friend Helen Day, with whom he visited in Miami at the start of the last flight, worked in a package store in 1936 and possibly in 1937. Smooth Sailing, Ron Dawson 2126 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:29:07 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Being Involved in the Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Kenton Spading If you mean participate personally in the field work, the first step is to become a member of TIGHAR. Next you'll need to complete the Introductory Course in Aviation Archaeology and participate in a domestic expedition (such as we just completed in the Lake Tahoe area). Completing those qualifying steps will make you eligible to be considered for the Earhart expedition teams. ************ Spading asks: Could Mr. Barnes short circuit some of this, and perhaps become a future team member, by making a substantial contribution to the Earhart project? Are there not current team members who have navigated the aforementioned route? LTM Kenton Spading **************************************************************************** From Ric On a few occasions in the past we have sought and accepted "Sponsor Team Members" who made significant financial contributions to the project in return for a place on the team. Some of the Sponsor Team Members have worked out exceedingly well and have been invited back regardless of financial considerations but, on principle, I much prefer to avoid that method of funding the expeditions. If the need arises for some future expedition we'd probably go that route again, but I can't promise that will happen. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:15:10 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: The LOP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell For whatever value this morning (July 2nd) the Sun would have still given an LOP of approximately 337/157 degrees. It was only a fraction less. The moon would have been at eighty some degrees, however. Of course this morning she would have been under radar control. Alan #2329 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:14:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Cleared area on Gardner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Ric Chuck Boyle recently received the following reply to his question about=20 cleared areas on Gardner from bill Davis who was stationed there. "About your question regarding a cleared area on Gardner. There was a sort of cleared area from the upper corner of the lagoon out to the ocean. It was not very wide maybe twenty-five feet or even fifty feet, my memory cannot do any better on that. It was through this cleared area that they dragged our wooden motor launch from the lagoon up up and out to the ocean when the Basswood came to pick us all up when Gardner was closed.=A0 While dragging the launch through the surf they ripped the tiller off. I remember that because I think I near drowned that day trying to hold the launch steady because it could not be controlled without the tiller. Good to hear from you hope this helps. Best regards;=A0 Bill Davis" LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:15:45 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: The LOP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag >Of course this morning she would > have been under radar control. > > Alan > #2329 She could have also taken along a GPS ELT in her brain bag and another installed in the tail of the Electra. Perhaps the Electra today would have been the turbine powered version. Doug Brutlag #2335 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:13:07 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Cleared area on Gardner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Actually, you distributed that one awhile ago -- but wasn't there an earlier one saying that they'd cleared a pretty good-sized area to assist the colonists in coco planting? TK ************************************************************************** From Ric Yes, Dick Evans remembered doing some bulldozer work for the locals. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:13:36 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Study of Gender Differences While Flying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski Ric: You might be interested in this study: http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af?ap=55&id=110677 It seems that AE's crashes (not counting the fatal flight) fit the female pattern. The fatal flight, I wantonly assume, is a different story. ;o) Marty *************************************************************************** From Ric Interesting. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:26:15 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: No Forum until 7/11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric The forum has been blessedly quiet lately while I've been bouncing around the country on various errands. Our Niku IIII team meeting in Reno, Nevada was immensely productive and the Aviation Archaeology Course and Training Expedition in the Lake Tahoe area was very successful. The B-17C wreckage that we surveyed has some interesting possibilities for recovery. More about that later. From now through the weekend I'll be at a family reunion in upstate New York, then early next week I'm doing a gig for Space Imaging at a trade show in San Diego (part of our satellite imaging deal). Thanks for your patience while I jump through these hoops. By next Wednesday (7/11) things should be back to semi-normal. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:03:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Forum resumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric Hi everybody and welcome to a whole bunch of new forum subscribers who have signed up during the current media feeding frenzy. Sorry it has taken me so long to get the forum resumed. I really wasn't expecting the media reaction to Space Imaging's press release and it has been "fins to the left and fins to the right" ever since I returned from a guest-appearance at their booth at a trade show in San Diego. For those who haven't seen way too much of me already, I'll be on the TODAY Show on Tuesday morning (7/17) between 07:30 and 08:00 Eastern time. From there I'll go acroiss the street to FOX where I'm scheduled to live bit at 09:35. All of the above, of course, assumes that some kind of real news doesn't break over the weekend. Anyway, I'm back on duty. Thanks for your patience. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:08:21 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Recovery and restoration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Evans Hi Tom (King), As you say, times have changed. Enjoyed your comments about NOAA saying you should not have been walking on the reef. Thought I'd add a bit of a story that you might find amusing. Three times while we were down there they brought us diesel fuel for the generators. This came in 55 gallon drums. The first time they tried dumping a couple of barrels over the side and having them float in. This didn't work. I imagine there are still a couple of barrels laying around somewhere on the beach. So now they tied 6 or 8 barrels on a line with about 6 feet between barrels. They would tow them in to the reef edge where thy would stop about 10 feet from the edge of the fingers. Now what? All the guys but one would line up behind each other and grab the belt of the guy in front of you to keep him from being knocked off the finger by the waves. We would walk out on the top edge of the finger for 20 or 30 feet until the front man was up to his hips between waves. This meant the waves broke across his chest. We could look down between the fingers and see that they receeded under the water so it was obvious that if anyone fell in, it was all over for him. Now the boat cew would throw a line to the front man. He grabbed it and we would all turn around, grab the belt of the guy who was now in front of you, and walk back onto the reef. Here the guy waiting would grab the line, attach it to the weapons carrier and tow the barrels ashore. Then we would load the barrels onto the Athey trailer and wait until we saw the boat start in with another load. Then it was back onto the finger and do it again. We would do this 4 or 5 times a day for 2 or 3 days until all the oil was unloaded. I once told this story to a stateside officer who commented on our bravery. After due consideratiion I think idiocy would have been a more apt description. Dick Evans *************************************************************************** From Ric It's interesting that the only other place in the satellite image that we see color values similar to the anomaly north of the Norwich City is in the water just off the reef in the area off Aukeraime where the Coast Guard tried to float drums of diesel fuel ashore. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:15:19 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Niku photos and Reuters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Roger Kelley Hi Folks, Today Reuters News Service, along with several newspapers and TV networks, reported on TIGHAR and the Ikonos 2 satellite photos of Niku and what is believed to be "...an anomaly that's in the place where an anecdotal account said there's airplane wreckage...'' The anomaly being wreckage of Amelia's Electra wedged in the coral reef. The portion of the article which perked my interest was a quote by Rolling Reineck. The article stated, ``In the eyes of reality, there's nothing there. Other people have scoured the island and none of us has ever ever felt that she was there,'' said retired Air Force Col. Rollin Reineck, a member of the Amelia Earhart Society who believes she was capture by the Japanese in the Marshalls." First, the article does not state when and to whom Reineck made the quoted statement. Does any one know when and to whom Reineck made this statement? Second, is Reineck's statement true? If so, who scoured Niku for evidence of Amelia and Fred, what were their findings? Were the results of those who scoured Niku published? If published, when and in what format were the findings published? Did freedom of the press take another giant leap into the realm of fantasy? Or, more likely, is Reineck simply making statements trying to regain the center of attention? LTM, (who checks every pixel) Roger Kelley **************************************************************************** From Ric I can only (charitably) assume that Rollin was misquoted. He's knows darn well that, with the exception of the U.S. Navy aerial search in 1937, nobody but TIGHAR has searched that island for signs of Earhart and we've certainly never looked in the place where we see the anomaly. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:19:11 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Amelia Earhart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stephen Coffman Sir, I just signed up for TIGHAR. I do have an unanswered question: Has any woman ever completed the flight around the world? If so, who? Thanks, Stephen Coffman **************************************************************************** From Ric It's been done twice. Ann Pellegrino flew a Lockheed 10A arund the world, closely following Earhart's path, in 1937. In 1997 another woman, Linda Finch, did sort of the same thing in a 10A that had been modified with the larger engines of the 10E. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:46:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Anomolous pixels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Charles Lim Hi Ric, I was wondering if from the photograph of the satellite imagery whether it is possible to ascertain the size and amount of electra that is in the water if indeed thats what it is. Having read the bullitin I figured that the pixels show that there is an object about 10feet long*2 metres wide. The bulletin goes on to refute this as the dimesions of the object in question using a description of how satellite imaging can 'lie' about the dimensions. With this and with the known flaws of the imaging, is it possible to find out how much of that object is still indeed there and whether this can give us and idea of the orientation of this anomally assuming that it is the electra we are looking for or whether the anomally fits the known dimension of the electra?? Charles Lim **************************************************************** From Ric The anomaly seems to be about 20 feet long and of irregular width. That would be consistent with the center section of the Electra (engine to engine, gear to gear) but that's may be just coincidence. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:49:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Plans for Communication from Niku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Charlie Sivert Hi, Ric, At the present time have you finalized a plan as to how you will handle communications from Niku? If my mental recall is correct, you did plan on some type of contact with the home base at Wilmington to file progress reports, etc. Is this correct? Charlie Sivert, 0269E ****************************************************************** From Ric Yes. We haven't finalized those plans yet but I should have something on that soon. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:55:41 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Recovery and restoration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Thanks, Dick -- you've obviously given us a great alternative way of getting at the anomaly on the reef. All we need is somebody REAL big and dumb to take the point. Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:00:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Niku photos and Reuters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King When I saw the Reineck quote, I immediately thought of Goerner's certainty that the island had been thoroughly searched by Maude and Bevington and/or by the PISS colonists. I think this premise is still pretty widely believed among TIGHAR-debunkers. We discuss it at some length in "Amelia Earhart's Shoes" -- which, by the way, went to the printer yesterday. LTM (who knows a thorough scouring when she sees one) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:02:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Forum resumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Malcom Andrews So you are to be on Fox? We get a Fox News Channel on cable TV here in Australia. Any way of finding out whether your bit will appear on it? By the way, a piece about you apparently appeared on one of the international news agencies on Friday (Thursday your time). A journalist colleague saw it - but no one thought it sufficiently of interest to publish it in any of the newspapers over here. Drat! Malcolm Andrews #2409 ****************************************************************** From Ric Sorry. I have no idea whether the FOX interview will be picked up in Australia? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:11:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Searches of Niku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Denise Ric says: "I can only (charitably) assume that Rollin was misquoted. He's knows darn well that, with the exception of the U.S. Navy aerial search in 1937, nobody but TIGHAR has searched that island for signs of Earhart ..." Ric, according to Emily Sukuli - a recollection recorded in Tom King's recent book - this may not be true. Emily places another search there on the island; one shortly after WWII. She says it was done by mysterious Americans who never told the locals what they were doing, but who spent a lot of time at that particular reef-edge looking for something in the water. It doesn't take a vast stretch of the imagination to decide Emily deserves - at the very least - eye-witness credit for seeing something that, in retrospect, looks darn-well like an Earhart search to me. And, come on now, give Gerry Gallagher his due. He spent all his spare time looking for Earhart on that island. So, really, if you want to be fair, you should be saying "As far as we know, according to public records, nobody but TIGHAR - oh, and Gerald Gallagher - has searched that island for signs of Earhart." LTM (who loves a secret search better than anyone) Denise ****************************************************************** From Ric Emily Sikuli never said any such thing to either Tom King or to me. You must be thinking of Tapania Taeke's comment to me and Kenton Spading that some men in a "government ship" came to the island and photographed the airplane parts she said were scattered in the bushes along the Nutiran shore. She didn't say when it supposedly happened or that she saw them herself. Pure anecdote. There is absolutely no evidence I am aware of that indicates that Gallagher "spent all his spare time looking for Earhart on that island." He apparently conducted the thourough search of the specific area where the castway's bones were found but that is very different from "scouring the island." I stand by my previous statement. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:14:01 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: UK press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Phil Tanner Pleased to report TIGHAR makes reports in at least two of our four main Sunday broadshets today, the Observer and the Sunday Times. As my glance flashed over the former it landed on the phrase "glamorous and articulate" and for a moment I thought it was description of Ric. But no, turns out to be Earhart herself. ****************************************************************** From Ric I count on you guys to keep me humble. You do a great job. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:16:05 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Ann Pellegrino's flight (07/14/01 forum) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom Cook Ric; You did mean1967, didn't you?? 1937 was Amelia's attempt, 1997 was Linda Finch's flight. Does this qualify me as a "Wannabe expert" and a slimy creature again??? DARN!! TC 2127 and proud of it! ***************************************************************** From Ric Yes, I meant 1967. Sorry. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:19:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Amelia Earhart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bill Leary In addition to those you mention, there's a couple more I've heard of... Quoting from http://aviation.about.com/library/weekly/aa121100.htm "Milestones in the Sky - Around the World Flights"... (Amelia Earhart set out to be the first woman to fly round the world in 1937 but disappeard on what turned out to be her final flight. It was not until 1964 that Geraldine Mock became the first women to fly around the world in a single-engine Cessna 180 called the Spirit of Columbus). Also, from the same source... In 1986 Dick Rutan and Jeana Yeager flew the Scaled Composites aircraft Voyager around the world (24,986.727 mi.), non-stop and unrefuelled, in 216 hr., 3 min., 44 sec, or almost exactly 9 days. (Dec. 14-23). - Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:48:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: the AE media blitz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Porter Hi Ric, and welcome back. All of us suffering from forum withdrawl syndrome can now expect a quick recovery. Welcome to all the new subscribers. I think you're going to like it here. Ric, since you're an old hand at handling media pressure, I came up with another way to stress you out. At a flea market today, I picked up a circa 1979 Hallmark series 1 "Famous Americans" Amelia Earhart collectible doll, still in original packaging, for $10.00 Now you guys on the Niku crew just gotta hit pay dirt this September so I can sell this ugly little thing on ebay for some big bucks. LTM, and I'll have the office TV tuned in Tuesday morning. Dave Porter, 2288 ***************************************************************** From Ric Well, with that much at stake I guess we have no choice. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:51:11 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Amelia Earhart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Herman De Wulf Hi Ric, There is something I don't understand. When exactly did Ann Pelegrino flew around the world ? Surely not in 1937 ? ***************************************************************** From Ric That was a test. It was 1967. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:52:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Forum resumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, Welcome back. It about blew me out of my chair when it first hit the TV news here (Denver - I'm in Golden actually), and I'm tickled that it was not just a local (since Space Imaging is in Colorado) phenomenon. Several people have known, in passing, of my interest in finding Amelia, and they all wanted to make sure I had seen the news. I took great pleasure in whipping out my membership card and saying, "Yeah, I belong to that group!" Way to go! ltm, jon 2266 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:54:14 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: What of Vanessa's competition? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E. #2194: Any news of Vanessa Chase's trip to the national junior historians' competition? I hope she did well! 73 Mike E. ****************************************************************** From Ric Haven't heard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:00:26 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AE and the Benedictine Bottle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Tighars, A pretty famous photo of of AE is now floating about showing her standing just outside the Electra 's open cabin door (solid), two gents loading maps or documents, and with a dark black "E" ( 3' tall) affixed/painted just aft of the door. The possible significance here is AE standing with a leather jacket holding a squarish, perhaps 8" bottle, that has some type of wrapping around the bottom. It does not appear to be of a service nature.It does not look like a canteen or beverage bottle.Perhaps someone can identify the bottle. What did a 1937 bottle of Benedictine liqueur look like. (The photo was taken before the modifications based on the solid door.) My computer isn't capable of higher resolution, but others may have a clearer sharper photo or image. LTM, Ron Bright ***************************************************************** From Ric I haven't seen the photo you describe but as far as I know cn1055 (AE's ship) never had an E painted on the side. There are several photos of her beside a 10A that carried foreign registration letters - probably taken at Burbank before her ship was delivered. On those photos she's wearing a leather jacket as I recall. Benedictine bottles in 1937 looked much as they do today. Very distinctive shape. Stop by the liquor store and check it out. Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:41:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Welcome new forum subscribers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric Perhaps not surprisingly, given the current media feeding frenzy, we've had something over 50 new forum sign-ups over the last few days. I'd like welcome all the new folks and apologize to the "regulars" for my somewhat spotty attention to my moderator duties. The phone hasn't stopped ringing. The Brits want interviews in the ealry morning, the American press fills the business day, and the Aussies rule the night. I'm hoping things will settle down a bit now so that we can get some work done. I have one request of the new forum subscribers: please have a good look at the material on the TIGHAR website before you ask questions or grace us with your insights. Unavoidably, you're tuning in to a show that is already in progress, so it's going to take you a while to get up to speed. We welcome your informed questions, comments, and criticisms. Thanks for joining us. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:52:11 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Sat Photo available for download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Andy Ric, Just saw the sat image on the web site. Its absolutely stunning. While I know no TIGHAR member or fourmite would download images from the website w/o express written permission, everyone may be interested to know that the sat photo is available for download from spaceimaging.com in resolutions up to 1280x1024. In fact the Niku image is currently their "Image of the week." Can you provide the forum with any updates on the state of preparations for Niku IIII? I am sure we are all waiting anxiously for whatever news you can provide. LTM, Andy **************************************************************************** From Ric Preparations for the expeditiona are coming along nicely. There is, of course, a ton of things to do but (so far) we've hit no major snags. The basic ship charter and airline fares are paid for but we'll still have to pay actual food and fuel costs after the expedition and there are always post-expedition research costs in figuring what the heck we found (assuming we find something). The exact degree and nature of media participation in the expedition is still under discussion but media interest (as you may have noticed) is high. I'll let everyone know more as soon as I know more. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:59:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: odd bitz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt Just a few snippets that came up in relation to my snooping around the index for microfilm archives of the London Missionary Society's activities in the Kirribati area... 80. anon. 1937. Christmas Island: A Claim by U.S.A. in: PIM 7(6):10. 81. anon. 1937. Christmas Island Sloop 'Leith' lands Fiji radio operator and party. Who owns Christmas Island? in: PIM 7(8):10. 82. anon. 1937. Japan has a look at Howland! in: PIM 8(1). 83. anon. 1939. Unsuspected Wealth in Barren Rocks; remarkable story of Pacific phosphate industry. in: PIM 9(10):17-20. BM DU/1/P. 84. anon. 1940. Rules For Gilbertese Spelling. in: Western Pacific High Commission Gazette, March 29, 1940. 85. anon. 1941. Te Kolone o Kilibati mo Elise (The colony of Gilbert & Ellice). Pepa tulafono mo nalo o fenua, o te tausanga e 1941. BM PL/PhilPam/551. It was number 82 that got my attention.... Th' WOMBAT ************************************************************************ From Ric That would be an interesting one to look at. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:11:39 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Media Coverage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag Ric; Are there any plans in the works to do live media broadcasts (via satellite) from Niku? Doug Brutlag #2335 ************************************************************************ From Ric All kinds of things are under discussion but no firm plans have been made. Time zone differences would make live broadcasts from Niku pretty impractical. To keep the TIGHAR membership informed we're presently planning on me making daily satellite-phone reports back to Pat here in Delaware. She will post a daily summary on the TIGHAR website. To help members keep track of where we're working on the island we're thinking of producing a gridded wall map based on the satellite image with districts and major features and planned search areas designated. The maps would be available to TIGHAR members at a modest price. The daily website reports could then reference coordinates on the map. Does this sound like something that would be useful to you guys? Now, if we could just come up with a secret decoder ring..... LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:40:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: What of Vanessa's competition? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Chase Ric, it's been such a hectic summer, I completely forgot to post Vanessa's results! Only been home a couple days at a time with very little computer time. A friend who lurks on the site called yesterday and mentioned that inquiring minds wanted to know! Vanessa took third place in the junior individual exhibit category (6th, 7th and 8th graders). She was just thrilled to be there, let alone to place high. She traded state pins with the other 1500 or so students, collected souvenirs and had a blast. The closing ceremonies were quite impressive at the U of M basketball stadium with the Navy band and Marine color guard entertaining, not to mention the parade of students on the show floor with their state banners. The competition was an incredible! When I saw the other exhibits and read the research papers I thought it would be tough going to place in the top ten. The other categories were even more amazing. There was one young man from California in the performance category that gave a historical performance of Teddy Roosevelt that was just breathtaking, you would have thought that you just saw Teddy for 10 Minutes! He didn't even place in the top three! Anyway, there were probably six or seven other exhibits on Amelia there as well, only one in Vanessa's category; others were in group or senior categories. In the later days of Vanessa's research she actually interviewed Faye Gillis Wells and Bobbi Trout! She also spent a couple days at the Amelia Earhart collection at Purdue University. Now she has the flying bug and wants to go up in a bi-plane! You can see the official results here: http://www.thehistorynet.com/NationalHistoryDay/02_contest/02.html Unfortunately the site does not let you go the precise page so... click on the link, then: - National Contest Information and Final results, then - 2001 National Contest results, then - Junior Individual Exhibit There's a Maryland company that goes around the contest taking pictures and then posts them on the web in hopes that you'll buy them. Here's their link to Vanessa's exhibit picture: http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=00IF006S010012 &start=0&album=0&adjust=-1 Since Vanessa's project is cylindrical, we're working on a format to get the info onto a web homepage and we'll keep you informed of that progress. We have alot of pictures that we could post, but we're also looking at formatting in a way that keeps the sense of a museum exhibit... alot more challenging! We'll be watching this am, hope to see you. Good luck today and over the next few weeks! Dave Chase ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:06:14 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Ann Pellegrino's flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stephen Coffman Are there any current plans (that you know of) for a 2007 flight? A flight every ten (10) years would help keep Amelia Earhart's story alive. I know of a female pilot that I might be able to persuade to take the flight. Who owns Linda Finch's L10? Stephen Coffman ************************************************************************** From Ric There's yet another Amelia wannabe alive and well and living in New Jersey by the name of Grace McGuire who wants to fly an Electra around the world. She owns the only surviving 10E (Finch's airplane is a modified "A"). Grace says she's close to having the airplane finished but she has been saying that for the past 20 years or so. As far as I know, Finch still owns the airplane she flew around the world in 1997 but it has been for sale for some time. Anything I'd have to say about Earhart commemorative flights would be pointlessly controversial so I'll keep my mouth shut. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:27:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 8th Edition published MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jim Tierney Ric--- O beautiful Sunshine--- O Happy Day--- The Earhart Book ARRIVED Today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you-Thank you-Thank you..... I can stroke it-hold it- caress it-clasp it to my ample chest--AND--Read it.... Thank you, Jesus Life is good... LTM- who will read my second copy--- Jim Tierney *************************************************************************** From Ric As you may have gathered from the above, the hard-copy (versus on-line) version of the Earhart Project Book (8th Edition) has been - at long last - shipped out. It's a large three-ring binder that contains those portions of the report that have been completed. Additional chapters, three-hole punched and ready for insertion, will be sent out as they become available. This multi-author tome is almost certainly destined to become the definitive work on the Earhart disappearance. It's a mammoth work and we're just as happy as Jim is that it now exists in earthly form. Those who have been waiting for this moment to order their own copy will now have to think of some other excuse. Otherwise, you can order your very own Project Book at http://www.tighar.org/TIGHAR%20store/order.html You can peruse the Table of Contents at http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/8thed_indexnol.html LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:38:12 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: AE and the Benedictine Bottle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, The photo Ron is talking about is from the Purdue collection. It's XI.B.16.d. The photo is almost certainly AE's plane - the cabin windows are absent, and the fueling doors are present in the side of the fusilage. There is an interesting rod or tube running horizontally through the fusilage, visible through the side window ahead of the door. I can't be sure if there's one on the starboard side also, but there might be. The documents appear to include charts (sticking out to the front of the bundle), and the outside one appears to be an envelope or folder. It is stamped "LETTE" (the holder's arm obscures the rest, but it would be logical to believe it says "Letter" or "Letters". We (you and I) had a dialog about it some time back, and as I recall you thought it might have been a special marking from her entry in the air races. Would AE have carried letters in an air race? Possibly another GP publicity grabber? The bottle is dark in color, and appears rectangular in cross section. Judging from the way she's holding it, it looks like it might be three inches wide and maybe 1 1/2 thick. I'm guessing it's about 8 inches high. It appears to taper into a round neck, and it looks like it has a stopper that's spherical on the lower half, and flat across the top, like a globe cut through at the equater. It seems to have a wrapper and some kind of a decorative string or twine, possibly to hold the lid on. Don't know if it's a liquor bottle, but I don't see any evidence of a tax stamp over the top. Did they do it that way in 1937? It could just as easily be a bottle of bath salts. ltm jon 2266 *************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks. Now I remember. Yes, that's her airplane and the photo has to date from 1936, before the modifactions for the World Flight. Both cabin windows had that stringer through them at that time and there was no window in the door. This is the only photo I've seen where there's a big letter on the side. As yo say, my guess is that ti was around the time of the Bendix Race in September 1936. I have no idea what the bottle may be, if it is a bottle. Anyone who want to see the photo can find it at http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XI.B.16.d.jpg LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:12:50 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: A few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Angus Murray As this is my first posting, I may be a little out of date as I haven't looked through the recent archive so I apologise if this matter has already been addressed. I notice that there was a request for help on some of the artifacts found. The base of the light bulb found gave me some ideas. This bayonet type base is identical to the design of domestic light bulbs used in Britain. They were supplied in 240, 110 and even 24 volt to name but a few types. Very early ones were evacuated through the top of the globe and so had a pip where the glass was sealed. The base was, I am pretty sure, copper. Later ones were a brass base and evacuated through the pillar supporting the filament which then carries an internal tube for this purpose. Modern bulbs have an aluminium base. The "bakelite" material you mention is much more likely a hard pitch which was (and is) used as an insulator. The ceramic shard may well be a part of a brass and porcelaine bulbholder. One common design used a brass housing containing a porcelaine loose insert which held the contact pins. It is not impossible the bulb was used with a battery in 24V form but this is unlikely. A slightly more likely scenario is that this is the base of a flash bulb. These were made with this type of bayonet fitting. The glass would probably have been lacquered in this application and may have used a thinner glass than standard. Reference to bulb manufacturers (Osram, Swan etc) might be able to identify this as a flash bulb. If the bulb has been discharged, the burning aluminium or magnesium foil would probably have marked the glass. If the bones were photographed by Gallagher, he may well have used flash to reduce the heavy contrast that a tropical sun and undergrowth would produce. However it seems very unlikely he would have taken any flash bulbs to such a remote and tropical island (although he may have arranged to have some sent after the discovery) Bayonet fitting bulbs were probably used in British ships in 110V form and the bulb found could easily have washed ashore having floated from almost anywhere and been subsequently broken. Alternatively it could have been rubbish brought ashore with other equipment and merely thrown away. This seems the most likely scenario. If this artifact was found in the region of he water tank it seems likely the site had very British associations as the US tends to use Edison-screw bulbs. In Britain these rarely appear except in miniature version (MES). The "South-east shore" seems much more likely to refer to the 7 site than the 1996 site. I don't believe that the 1996 site was the place where the bones were discovered. It is possible that material recovered at the 7 site was brought back to the village via the 1996 site and accidentally dropped there, either in transit or at a temporary halt. If the aircraft landed on the reef, it seems likely that without a tricycle undercarriage, and with the heavy engines over the undercarriage, little balanced by the weight of the fuselage, it would have ground looped (because of the rough surface) to land upside down. Aircraft of this type such as the Hudson did not handle well at takeoff and landing. If it landed OK, it would soon have been upturned by the surf. At high tide only the undecarriage would have been directly visible and one undercarriage leg was the rusty part seen by the small girl. The round portion on the end was one wheel, with or without its tyre. It would also help explain why the air search did not spot the aircraft. Earhart and Noonan may well have been injured which helps explain their rapid demise and lack of response to the search a week later. Again, a ground loop would explain why a part discovered by Tighar may come from the belly of the aircraft as it would then have been easily removed. Every indication seems to lead to the conclusion that the remains of the aircraft are now in the lagoon and I think this is where the search should be concentrated. Sensitive metal detectors would be needed to detect aluminium under perhaps many feet of silt. The ferro magnetic undercarriage and remaining engine may well have been swept past the entrance to the lagoon and ended up in deep water off the reef. Regards Angus Murray **************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks for your comments Angus. Your opinions about the light bulb base match others that we've had. The possibility that it was actually a flash bulb is particularly intriguing. In digging through the inventory of Gallagher's personal effects I can't find a mention of flash bulbs but that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't have any. Flash bulbs are, of course, disposable - which would explain how one ended up on the ground near - what? - the hole that we think might be where the skull was exhumed. Hmmm. I'm afraid you're a bit confused about the sites on the island. The "1996 site" is the same place as the "Seven Site." LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:16:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 8th Edition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Dennis McGee Huzzah! I just received my copy of the 8th Edition in the mail, The only question now is who gets to read it first; me, my fianc=E9e, or her sister. Maybe I could solve the problem by buying two more copies. Hmmm. Thanks again! LTM, who loves the smell of Xerox toner in the morning! Dennis O. McGee #0149EC=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:22:50 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Welcome new forum subscribers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Peter Polen Ric Received my new Earhart Project Books yesterday, thanks for remembering. Saw you on TV last morning. You look like you have put on a little weight. I'm sure you wanted to hear that statement. Well, going back to the islands will take that off of yea. Lets hope Washington doesn't find an intern (OOPS, sorry that's not political correct is it), till you get back with Earhart's plane parts. Last time you needed exposure a war broke out. I think it's your turn now. Thanks again and good luck. Peter Polen Director Piper Aviation Museum Lock Haven PA **************************************************************************** From Ric That's the problem with a 13 year investigation - there's too much "historical context" on file. For the record, my weight (although about 20 pounds too much) has been stable for the past five years. I imagine all of us will lose a little flab on this trip. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:15:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Ann Pellegrino's flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stijn de Jong >Anything I'd have to say about Earhart commemorative flights would be >pointlessly controversial so I'll keep my mouth shut. Why thank you. I just snarfed tea all over my keyboard when I read that. You're the master of the silent punchline, Ric. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:20:54 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Secret decoder and grid system for the map of Niku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Pingrey Ric, I think I still may have my Captain Midnight radio decoder packed away some where. Could we use one of those for the messages from Niku? I don't want to drink any more Ovaltene(?) to be able to get another one however. I do think the grid system to identify work areas on Niku would be a good idea. Dick Pingrey 908C (Who thinks my mother may have thrown out the decoder along with my Boy Scout stuff when I left home) *************************************************************************** From Peter Boor I'm interested... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:44:57 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 8th Edition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From JHam Ric, I have the on-line 8th edition. Is the hard copy a separate purchase? If so, how much? Thanks. blue skies, jerry *************************************************************************** From Ric No, one price buys all. If you don't receive your copy in the next few days let me know. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:53:13 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: A few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stuart Allsop This is also my first posting here, and I'd also like to apologize in advance if this is ground that has already been covered. I wanted to comment on Angus Murray's idea that the aircraft may have ground looped. Although this is a possibility, ground loops don't occur so much from the weight and balance of the aircraft, as they do from the aerodynamics. For non-aviators, a "ground loop" is a situation in which an aircraft on the ground turns too quickly (kind of like grossly oversteering a car into a skid), which causes the "outside" wing (the one on the outside of the turn) to rise and lift the undercarriage on that side of the aircraft off the ground, thus causing the "inside" wing tip to touch the ground. The inside wing will occasionally dig in, and cause the aircraft to spin around, and in extreme cases to cartwheel, especially if the ground is particularly soft. A fairly common effect during a ground loop is for the undercarriage of the aircraft to be damaged, and occasionaly it is ripped right off the airframe. But cartwheels are very rare, for the basic reason that the speeds involved in a ground loop are generally very low, not enough to allow the aircraft to actually flip over. However, the root causes behind a ground loop are nearly always aerodynamic. Taildraggers (like the Electra) are much more prone to this than are modern tricycle gear aircraft. The basic reason is the difficulty in keeping any aircraft moving in a straight line when it is balanced on only two wheels while the speed is too low for the rudder to be fully effective. (The weight and location of the engines with respect to the location of the wheels is not all that relevant: even modern airliners can ground loop, under the right conditions.) At high speeds, the rudder can easily generate enough aerodynamic forces to keep the plane straight, but at low speeds there just isn't enough lift being produced by the rudder (or rather "rudders" in the case of the Electra) to make directional control on the ground easy. Which is why you'll often see taildragger pilots flapping the rudder back and forth madly on takeoff, in an effort to keep the aircraft pointed straight down the runway, but before there is enough airspeed to make the rudder fully effective. Hence, ground loops usually only occur at low speeds, and are more common on takeoff than on landing. Therefore, it seems unlikely that AE would have groundlooped her plane for the normal aerodynamic reasons. However, there is another possibility: Since she would probably have been attempting to land on the hard wet sand close to the water's edge, rather than further up the beach (where the sand would probably be dangerously soft), it is possible that one wheel (or even a wing tip) could have struck water, and that would have pulled the aircraft sharply towards the sea, perhaps flipping it in the process. Technically, it wouldn't be a ground loop, but the result could be far more catastrohpic, as it could take place at much higher speeds than a ground lopp could. For what it's worth. Stuart Allsop **************************************************************************** From Ric I agree with your description of the typical groundloop. Your speculation about where Earhart may have landed the aircraft, while reasonable, is not supported by the available evidence which seems to suggest a landing on the hard, flat - and in places relatively smooth - coral of the reef flat that surrounds the island. Had the aircraft groundlooped upon landing to the extent that it flipped over, as Angus suggested, it is hard to imagine how radio distress calls could have been sent. the transmitting antenna was on the top of the fuselage. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:54:55 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: AE and the Benedictine Bottle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt I've always used that picture as my "Noonan wasn't the only drunk" argument... Th' WOMBAT *************************************************************************** From Ric Ah yes. The "Party In the Sky" hypothesis. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:00:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Welcome new forum subscribers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Troy congrats on the publicity, Ric! We are all rootin' for you and the team. I hope you come back and show them. Success is the greatest revenge. --troy-- *************************************************************************** From Ric Oh....we're not looking for revenge.....just victory. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:06:43 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Aviation Music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Brown Here is an interesting website containing music with an avaition theme. The young lady has a very nice voice and the songs are nice too. One of them is about AE. Kristin Hill's web site. http://www.bigbayrecords.com/CDs/Soundwings.html Her song about Amelia Earhart. http://www.bigbayrecords.com/Soundbytes/SOUNDO.MP3 Walk easy on Mother Earth. Tanka Chuntay Muhtoe Dalton (Chicora - Waccamaw) Bob ( Bob@thebrowns.com ) Brown http://www.bbbrown.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:07:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Grid map MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Shirley Super idea, Ric Would love to keep up on a map. Shirley 2299 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:11:26 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Off topic Electra crash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Don Neumann Here is a website link from ...'Holcomb's Aerodrome'..., which has, indirectly, some interesting connections with AE & her Electra 10E . Don Neumann sandon@webtv.net ********************** Mint Canyon Crash Address:http://www.qnet.com/~carcomm/wreck17.htm Changed:4:26 PM on Friday, December 31, 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:12:20 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: AE and the Benedictine Bottle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, Two quick comments - first, ref the bottle - you don't suppose it's where the navigation genie lives..... Second, Yay! I got mine today as well. What a great surprise. With as busy as you have all been to get the book out right now as well. It looks great - I haven't done the cover to cover thing yet, but soon! ltm, jon 2266 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:15:10 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Secret decoder and grid system for the map of Niku MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jim Tierney To Ric--I also think that a grid system that we can all correlate to would be a good idea....Those of us lurkers and non-expeditioners could read what you say-check our maps for the grid location and check our picture... Then we could all fantasize about what you are doing out there and why we all couldnt go along.....AND all us older,smarter ones could thank God that you guys are out there sweating and straining and we are back home with our feet up and a G&T in our hands... Good luck to you all.. Jim Tierney ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:28:33 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AOL Front Page Coverage-Today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Barry Robinson Congratulations Ric, You have the front page coverage on the AOL home page today with the sat. photo and the story. It looks very good and should produce lots of responses and hopefully some financing. Well done. Barry Robinson #2114 **************************************************************************** From Ric Holy Guacamole! The "Satellite Photo" link on the news page goes directly to the research bulletin on the TIGHAR website! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:38:06 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: S.S. Malolo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Dawson For those with the "where are they now" compulsion that I suffer from, here is the lowdown on the S.S. Malolo, the ship AE returned to the mainland on after the Hawaii accident. Built in 1927 as Malolo for Matson Lines. In 1937 she was renamed Matsonia. Home Lines bought her in 1948 and renamed her Atlantic. In 1954 she was transferred to National Hellenic American Line (a Home Lines subsidiary) and named Queen Frederica. She retained this name when the National Hellenic American Line was bought by Chandris Lines in 1965, who continued to use both company names. She was laid up in the River Fal in the early 1970s, but had a charter to Sun Cruises in 1973. She was then laid up in Greece until burnt out and then scrapped in 1978. Smooth Sailing on the Nai'a, Ron Dawson 2126 **************************************************************************** From Ric Bummer. I was sure it was going to end with something like, "She has now been fully restored and is doing dinner cruises on Keuka Lake in the Finger Lakes of New York State. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:43:01 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: A few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stuart Allsop Thanks for the reply, Ric. I guess I had forgotten about that slight detail of the reef surrounding the island! Yes, that would, of course, but a much more attractive landing area than the beach. A couple of questions out of ignorance: 1) Does the water completely cover the coral reef at high tide, or is there still a flat level surface mostly above the water? 2) What was the tide level estimated to have been during the most probable window for AE to have landed? Was it high, low, in between? What I am aiming at here is to try to understand the conditions that AE would have been facing. If it was low tide, or if the coral is high and dry even at high tide, then the reef would obviously be the first choice. But if the reef was covered, then she would probably have tried for the beach instead, wouldn't she? Once again, I apologize if I am just making you go back over ground that has already been covered. As a pilot, I've always had more than just a passing interest in the AE mystery, but I wasn't aware of TIGHAR until the recent new satellite photos hit the news, so I have a lot of catching up to do! Stuart Allsop *************************************************************************** From Ric At low tide much of the reef is dry but at high tide there is three to four feet of standing water - so any landing on the reef flat would pretty much have to be accomplished at or near low tide. The exact tidal state on that reef between, say, 10 a.m. and noon on July 2, 1937 has been the topic of much discussion but without far more data than we have at present it remains an open question. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:17:32 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Earhart in Saipan (nonsense) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bill Carter Ric - For what its worth, while looking for a scuba dive instructor, I spoke to a dive master here in Boise, Idaho who told me he spent many years on Saipan and diving in that part of the world. This individual told me that he knew a lot of people on Saipan who were there during the war who told him that Earhart was never on Saipan and that the stories circulating that she was are "garbage." He assured me (without elaboration) that the people he knew would have known if she was there and they assured him that she was not. This type of information is purely anecdotal and second hand but then again it's consistent with the notion that the U.S. Government wouldn't bother to send and untrained civilian on a detour from her round the world flight on some sort of spy mission against a country that we weren't at war with and with no way of returning to report what was seen. LTM Bill Carter #2313CE *************************************************************************** From Ric I get the sense that the Japanese-capture myth is pretty much dead. Most of the media I've been talking to don't want to even mention it as an alternative hypothesis. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:19:45 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Sherman [Stuart Allsop wrote: > .. a "ground loop" is a situation in which an aircraft on the ground >turns too quickly (kind of like grossly oversteering a car into a >skid), which causes the "outside" wing (the one on the outside of the > turn) to rise and lift the undercarriage on that side of the >aircraft off the ground, thus causing the "inside" wing tip to >touch the ground. *** I confess to having never ground looped, but I have spent more than 40 years preventing ground loops in a few planes, J-3 Cub's to B-747's, by counteracting the ground loop tendency. As I recall, the idea was to keep the 'inside wing' Down and the 'outside' wing Up. Put yourself in the cockpit starting down the runway for take off.. There is a wind from the Left thus the plane wants to 'weather vane' [turn Left to align itself with the wind]. Additionally, the horizontal torque component from the prop & engine will add to the 'nose left' force. Don't you start with [up to] full Right rudder, easing off as necessary as speed increases, and at the same time have lots of Left aileron in, easing off to keep the wings level as speed increases?? Left aileron means we want Down forces on left wing and Up forces on the Right wing. If as Stuart says, the outside wing will rise in a ground loop, why are we applying force to keep it Up? RC 941 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:38:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Explore Nikumaroro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon You've got to try this. Go to: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/amelia_plane_010711.html then click on the explore Nikumaroro feature. It is a slow download, but worth it. What is the square feature on the reef, just to the east of the broadest passage through the reef? Dan Postellon TIGHAR *************************************************************************** From Ric I'm not sure what you're looking at but it may be a coral head in the lagoon. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:13:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: A few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Angus Murray Stuart says that cartwheels are fairly rare and I'm sure he's right. However most landings are on a smoother surface than a reef which may have substantial potholes which could actually stop a wheel dead, producing the high speed on the opposite side and increased lift as he describes. (My idea was closer to Stuart's description in his final paragraph). The points I was making re the weight and balance are that to overturn an aircraft with a tricycle undercarriage subsequent to a ground loop is far more difficult as the centre of mass is well behind the front wheel rather than almost directly above the wheels in the case of the Electra. To overturn the aircraft one then has to raise the whole aircraft about a radius from the front wheel to the centre of mass. In the case of the Electra the centre of mass would rotate about a much more vertical radius and the aircraft would not have to be lifted much to achieve rotation. Whilst the speed of the aircraft might not be that high, the inertial effect of a twin engined a\c would be considerable in suddenly stopping one wheel. Instead of ending up on its nose, the aircraft then rotates about a line joining the wing tip and the nose. The shorter radius to the centre of mass makes a flip a real possibility. Whether an accident or the surf, the pointers are to an inversion at some time.The panel damaged by apparently a fuel-air explosion, could be explained by the poorly secured battery shorting out after being inverted and igniting leaking fuel. The eight (?) foot length of rusty metal remembered by the small girl would correspond to one undercarriage leg, perhaps the other having been ripped off as Stuart suggests. Re the supposed post-loss transmissions, we have no definitive evidence of such. Many are almost certainly hoaxes and it seems odd that conditions were never good enough in the space of a week for a positively identifiable transmission. Someone on (was it Hull?) had a radio receiver and picked up no transmissions. If the authorities were quite sure of a transmission after the time EA would have certainly run out of fuel (for flying) they would not have stopped looking. The "Betty" transmission seems altogether unlikely. No call sign, no repeated postion etc. No-one would mess about for a few hours whilst they were using up their limited supply of fuel for operating the engine. It seems very strange that EA & FN didn't spell out an SOS on the beach if indeed they were fit and able. Angus Murray **************************************************************************** From Ric Okay, welcome to the forum. First - the woman's initials were AE (for Amelia Earhart). Second - You say, "Whether an accident or the surf, the pointers are to an inversion at some time." Certainly the aircraft could have been flipped at some point but I'm aware of no pointers or evidence that it happened. Third - You say, "The panel damaged by apparently a fuel-air explosion, could be explained by the poorly secured battery shorting out after being inverted and igniting leaking fuel." I wonder how you know that the battery was poorly secured. The damage could just as easily have been caused by water hitting an immovable aircraft. That hypothesis requires no speculation beyond the scenario already suggested by other evidence. Fourth - You say, "The eight (?) foot length of rusty metal remembered by the small girl would correspond to one undercarriage leg, perhaps the other having been ripped off as Stuart suggests." Emily was 16 in 1940 and remembers something that was more like 12 feet in length. The gear legs of a Model 10 are about five feet long. I think it's probably excessively speculative to try to assign specific components to Emily's recollections. There is plenty of debris from a wrecked Electra that could look like what she described. Fifth - Your offhand dismissal of the more than 100 alleged post-loss radio transmissions is based upon a number of judgements about what various people would have done. As we've so often pointed out on this forum, anytime someone says "would have" it means thay are guessing. We've looked at the post-loss signals, including those reported by Betty, in great detail and we find them very hard to dismiss. Sixth - You say, "Someone on (was it Hull?) had a radio receiver and picked up no transmissions." That's because the receiver was broken. You're speaking of John William Jones, the Burns Philp overseer on Hull. He also had no idea that Earhart was attempting a 'round the world flight, had disappeared or that a search was underway. Seventh - As for spelling out SOS on the beach, that presupposes that they were expecting an aerial search. It's hard to imagine why that would be the case. As far as they knew, their's was the only airplane within thousands of miles. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:24:08 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Coaxial Cables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Rayfield Did anyone ever come up with any more information regarding the two coaxial cables found in 1996 during TIGHAR's NIKU III expedition? John Rayfield, Jr. ************************************************************************** From Ric Perhaps our resident Radio Historian, Mike Everette, would care to provide a brief summary on what we've been able to learn about the cables (which are not, as it turns out, true coax cables). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:25:59 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: No Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Reference groundloops: Excuse me Mr. Allsop, but the cause of a groundloop on a taildragger is because the center of gravity is behind the main gear. When the airplane starts to veer off, the CG tends to make everything want to run straight, thereby making the off-course excursion more severe. This results in the OUTBOARD wing tip digging in, usually caused by the outboard main gear collapsing inward. Been there, done that. *************************************************************************** From Ric (ouch) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:28:13 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: AOL Front Page Coverage-Today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Suzanne ..while over at the UK's "Sunday Times," they are *very* optimistic for you with this following caption! Earhart's lost plane 'discovered on Pacific reef' http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/15/stifgnaus03002.html Suzanne Stockton, California (New to the forum, but I've been following the TIGHAR web site for a few years.) *************************************************************************** From Ric Welcome aboard. Well, I guess it sells newspapers. Now I suppose we'll have to find the darn thing. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:32:56 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stuart Allsop Hi Bob, I think we are just confusing terminology here. What you are describing is not really "groundloop recovery" at all, but rather the correct procedure for a crosswind takeoff! (Which will, of course, help keep you away from a ground loop). Yes, in a cross wind takeoff you certainly do want to keep your upwind wing down, just as you describe, but that has nothing to do with the "inside" and "outside" wing of a ground loop. Until you actually start a ground loop, the terms "inside wing" and "outside wing" are undefined, and are not related to the upwind wing and the downwind wing (or "windward" and "leeward" wings, if you prefer). Perhaps it was my fault for not explaining it more clearly, but by "outside wing" I mean the wing that is towards the outside of the turn *once you are already in a ground loop*, and not the wing that is upwind in a crosswind situation. The terms as I used them only have meaning once the aircraft starts turning. As long as you are doing as you correctly state (keeping the plane straight on takeoff), then there is no such thing as an "inside" or an "outside" wing. However, if you don't do a good job of keeping the plane straight, then you do stand a chance of groundlooping, and the terms I used now make sense. In your example, imagine that you put in too much rudder and too little left aileron, and as a result your left wing comes up and you start turning to the right. As you know, if you don't correct this situation PDQ, then you will soon be starting a ground loop. Now the left wing becomes the "outside wing" (as you are turning to the right). Since the left wing now has a higher airspeed than the right wing, the left wing tends to rise even more, which just worsens the situation, and tightens the turn, which speeds up the inside wing even more, which tightens the turn, which speeds up the wing.... etc. Once the outside wing rises enough, the inside wingtip touches the ground, and that large increase in drag in the inside of the turn is all that is needed to make your day go really sour: You groundloop to the right, with your left wing being the "outside" wing. On the other hand, if in your example you had applied too little rudder and too much aileron, and not corrected in time, then the ground loop would be to the left, and your right wing would be the outside wing. In any event, my original point was that even if AE had groundlooped on landing (of which I remain unconvinced), either on the reef or on the beach, then it is not very probable that such a groundloop would have caused the plane to cartwheel or flip over, since ground loops usually only occur at low speeds, when there is not enough inertia to do so. Damage is usually limited to the inside wingtip, and to the undercarriage, as well as occasionally to props and engines on multi-engine aircraft, if contact is made with the ground. Once again, this is usually only on the inside wing. Did I do better job of explaining this time around? I think the confusion is only due my use of the term "inside" and "outside" wing as related to ground loops, while you were using it to refer to the upwind (or windward) wing, and the downwind (or leeward) wing. Stuart Allsop **************************************************************************** From Ric It's worth mentioning that when AE wrecked the airplane in Hawaii in a really vicious takeoff groundloop, it neither cartwheeled nor flipped. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:21:39 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, While I am not a pilot (alas), my dad (79 in August) is, and has been since 1942. He still flies, and I fly with him from time to time - times to be treasured, but I digress. Dad started flying in tail draggers. and in fact still flies a Cessna 120 that's about a month younger than me. The last time we flew, he was explaining to me that pilots not used to tail draggers don't anticipate that when the tail lifts and the plane of the propellor rotation becomes perpendicular to the ground, the gyroscopic precession created by changing the attitude of the propellor tends to make the axis of the gyroscope (ie: propellor), and therefore the airplane, want to turn to one side or the other (depending upon the direction of rotation of the gyroscope - er, propellor). To counter this, as the tail lifts rudder must be applied. A pilot not anticipating this could be in for an interesting ride. Tricycle pilots don't generally have that concern, he said, because of the way the airplane lifts off. This may be easily demonstrated in one's own garage by dismembering one's bicycle, and ... well, you get the idea. I suspicion that this may have been what happened in Hawaii when AE was trying to go the first time. Not that she wasn't expecting it, but heavily loaded under full power ... well, it could happen. Anyway, this and three bucks will get you a really fine cup of coffee in some places... ltm, jon 2266 *************************************************************************** From Ric Groundloops can happen but I'm aware of no evidence to suggsest that such an accident occurred during the speculative landing on the reef at Gardner Island. The post-loss radio signals constitute a clue that, if such a landing was made and if a groundloop did occur, it did not result in the collapse of the starboard gear leg or the inversion of the aircraft. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:44:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Stuart Allsop Thanks for the correction, Marty. Yep, it looks like I screwed up there! Of course, you are correct: the OUTSIDE wing can also dig in in a ground loop, especially in a taildragger with (as you point out) the CG behind the main gear. I've seen it happen both ways, but so far(!) it's never happened to me. But thank you for keeping me honest! I stand corrected. But I do think this discussion is a little pointless: we all seem to agree that a groundloop is unlikely in the case of AE's Electra, for many reasons, not least of which is the probability that the aircraft was still upright and sitting on its landing gear after it came to a stop, with at least one engine and radio still operational, in order to transmit those "anomalous" signals. It therefore seems to me that a groundloop, cartwheel, flip, or any other maneuver involving substantial damage to the aircraft is just not very likely. It seems probable that the aircraft would have been fairly much in tact, and with the cabin and at least one engine clear of the water. But I have to admit that I'm still a little skeptical of the conclusion that they landed on the reef: If it would have been covered with a few feet of water at the next high tide, within no more than a few hours after the landing, then surely the only window for those transmissions would be in the time until the water either covered the aircraft, or moved it off the reef. Once off the reef, it would sink fairly quickly: a study of succesful ditchings shows that aircraft in the water rarely stay afloat for more than a few hours, max, and usually sink within an hour or less. (Yes, some have stayed afloat for days, but they are the exception rather than the rule.) So, it seems that the window for making transmissions from the aircraft would be no more than one full day, best case. Which leads to my question: over what period of time were these transmissions recorded? Did they all happen within that period of time, or were some of them recorded days later? Is there a link to transcripts of these transmissions? I looked on the TIGHAR site, but I didn't see them. Maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place? Stuart *************************************************************************** From Ric Normal tidal levels on the reef at Niku are only 3 to 4 feet at high tide - not enough to disturb a parked Lockheed 10 unless there was significant surf. If the sea was calm for the first few days I can see no reason why the airplane should have remained intact and alble to transmit during periods of low tide when an engine could be run to keep the battery charged. Our nearly-complete but not yet posted analysis of the post-loss signals shows that they were heard exclusively during the hours of darkness in the Central Pacific, except for Betty's which were in the late morning hours. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:45:31 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Herman (#2406) When I read Stuart Allsop's explanation I suspect he has never groundlooped an airplane. These things happen to taildraggers because of their CG being behind their wheels. When one groundloops, the aircraft will (usually violently) turn into the wind because of the wind pushing the tailplane (aggravated by the gyroscopic effect of the propeller if this happens during take off when the tail comes up). Because of the forward speed of the airplane the landing gear will collapse (the wheel on the outside of the turn will probably go first) and you'll slide to a stop on your belly if you're lucky. If not, the airplane will fall on its wing which will then break because it hasn't been designed for this sort of treatment. Incidentally, all this has been demonstrated the day before yesterday at Brussels airport by a WW II vintage tail dragging Westland Lysander (870 hp high wing tail dragger) which got out of control after landing in a 110/6 sidewind on runway 25L (which is the QFU for 250 degrees). The right hand gear collapsed, the starboard wing broke and the airplane now is a shambles, having taken 10 years to restore it to flying condition. They don't breed pilots who can fly taildraggers any more. LTM from Herman (who learned flying in a taildragger long ago and confessses having groundlooped once) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:48:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Explore Nikumaroro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Grady Cates I need your help on just were on the island that the wreckage is suspose to be. I have looked at the shot of the island and I haven't seen the location. Could you please give me a few pointers of just what to look for please. Yes I do know what a L-10 looks like before wrecked. Many Thanks Grady Cates **************************************************************************** From Ric You won't see anything in the full-sized version of the image. Go to the TIGHAR website at www.tighar.org and click on the satellite image to go to the Research Bulletin that describes the entire chain of evidence. Be sure to continue to the second page of the bulletin. All will be revealed. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:50:45 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: AOL Front Page Coverage-Today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Andy Excerpt from that article... <<< Earhart's lost plane 'discovered on Pacific reef' http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/07/15/stifgnaus03002.html >>> "Gillespie plans to lead a diving expedition next month to the atoll - previously known as Howland island." Whoops! How much confusion could that possibly stir up?! LTM, who never confuses her Central Pacific islands. Andy *************************************************************************** From Ric And I'll be held accountable for their mistakes. It's okay. I'm used to it. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:52:55 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: UK press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern >From Phil Tanner >Pleased to report TIGHAR makes reports in at least two of our four main >Sunday broadshets today, the Observer and the Sunday Times. This might have been a good time to try to get in something about our interest in finding some of the Clancy family -- Re: The Gallagher stuff returned from the Pacific after WWII. ************************************************************************ From Ric They just picked up wire stories. I never talked to them. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:58:12 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: A few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell > The panel damaged by apparently a fuel-air explosion, could be > > explained by the poorly secured battery shorting out after being inverted > > Somehow I missed knowing the panel on the Electra was damaged. How did anyone find that out? A ground looping aircraft rotates around one wheel. As theat wheel moves in whatever direction so does the center of rotation. Putting the tandem gear beneath the center of mass reduces the moment of rotation. (Less centrifugal force} Alan #2329 *************************************************************************** From Ric 2-2-V-1 is rather obviously damaged. It has no finished edges and was blown out of a larger sheet of aluminum by a fluid force that came from the inside of the aircraft. Two of the edges show abrupt failure in tension, one of the edges shows failure due to fatigue after at least two cycles, and the fourth edge may have been hacked free by human work. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:01:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E. #2194: > >Did anyone ever come up with any more information regarding the two coaxial >cables found in 1996 during TIGHAR's NIKU III expedition? > > John Rayfield, Jr. The cables indeed look to be of a type that could be of the vintage we are interested in; however, such cables were also used in WW2-era equipment, such as might have been found at the LORAN station on Niku. The connectors are of a type which first appeared circa 1936. They are of American design and manufacture. These connectors, Howard P. Jones 101 series, a common pre-war form of coaxial fitting, were indeed used in period avionics equipment; in fact, Bendix was quite fond of them. We know that NR16020 carried some variety of "Bendix direction finder" but the exact type is far from established. I made some inquiries a while back to Australian sources (radio museums) to try and determine whether the "Yank" connectors might be found in British or Australian gear, but had no success. The cable itself is a type of shielded wire; the manufacturer may have been Belden, but this is not established for certain. One common use for this variety of cable, as described in period catalogs and specs, was "auto-radio antenna lead-in." Don't be quick to jump to conclusions, however. It could have just as easily been used for audio wire or for instrumentation; or, (and probably likely) have been some kind of test cable or patch cord used in most any kind of electronic equipment. The apparent length of one of the cables suggests to me that it probably was some sort of test cable or patch cord. For example, one WW2-era application for the connectors in question was the Ferris Microvolter series of radio-frequency signal generators, which may well have been found among the test gear used in the LORAN station. The Jones 101 series connector predates the Amphenol-designed "UHF" series of coaxial fittings and was used as the output connector on this pre-war design signal generator. Two-way FM land-mobile radios made by the Link Radio Corporation, designed prior to the War, also used the Jones 101 as a coaxial antenna connector. (Any LORAN veterans recall if any of the vehicles on Niku had two-way radios, and what general type?) These Jones connectors continued to be used by a number of manufacturers of radio equipment throughout the 1940s. They were also found in audio equipment. I have contacted a couple of wire manufacturers who turned out such cable in the 1930s; but the response I got was slow and incomplete. Perhaps now that interest is piqued in the AE story, another contact would light a fire under them. I will pursue this.... LTM (who is well connected) and 73 Mike E. *************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Mike. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:03:11 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Sherman For Stuart Allsop Your proposition was quite clear, but.... The fact is, be it a car or an airplane, single eng. or multi, propellor or jet, tricycle or tail wheel, ALL will lean toward the outside of any turn on the ground. RC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:05:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Explore Nikumaroro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ellie Ellis Hi Rick, I saw you on TV Tuesday but was sorry you were preempted on Fox. I am excited about this new imaging and hope it is the smoking gun. If it is, is Amelia's relative alive yet that won't give DNA samples unless something positive turns up? If so, do you think she will believe you now and give one. Good luck on the expedition, Ellie Ellis *************************************************************************** From Ric We won't ask her for a DNA sample unless and until we have something to compare it to. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:07:32 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Pingrey Ric, As you so properly stated, there is no evidence to indicate that ground loop would have occured assuming Amelia did land on Gardner. If there were post landing radio transmissions a groundloop or at least one that cause significat damage to the airplane is quite unlikely. All of these explanations of what causes a groundloop have elements that are correct. Basic physic can explain the dynamics of a ground loop but it is the pilots failure to maintain directional control for any or all of the reasons suggested that is the real cause. I have a few thousand hours in tail draggers and have managed to avoid a ground loop thus far. That may be a bit like gear up landing. There are those that have and those that will. Its interesting to speculate but there is no way of knowing what kind of a landing may or may not have been made at Gardner in 1937. If there is no way to know it is rather unimportant. We know that wave action is the most likely cause of the airplane ending up in the surf. Dick Pingrey 908C *************************************************************************** From Ric I agree. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:09:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Troy oh man....what a plum! Ric, I can't wait until you post the post-loss radio signals..... I don't think an analysis like that has ever been done and I have looked forward to seeing "the grid" since we first started talking about it on the forum. Will this come out before NikuIIII? LTM --troy-- TIGHAR #2348 **************************************************************************** From Ric We'll try. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:50:13 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Post-loss messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From E. Karns this is wonderful and thank you so much. can you tell me how I can find the messages that were received after she went down on the Itasca and elsewhere? ************************************************************************** From Ric We haven't completed that study yet but you might look at the Research Bulletin "Betty's Notebook" http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Documents/Notebook/notebook.html fopr an example of one of the most striking alleged post-loss messages. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:13:05 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Add'l reef imagery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Michel Little late I guess, but with all this recent talk of coral reef imagery, do you guys know about this? http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgibrs/reefs.pl Happened to be talking to an old girlfriend who did graduate work in tropical ecology and she immediately mentioned this. Might be a way to corroborate what you just got with some additional images; I haven't tried to sort through what they have or how to get to it, but it seems certain they would have some of 'Niku'. Michel ************************************************************************ From Ric Not as far as we know. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:15:10 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: UK press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern >From Ric >They just picked up wire stories. I never talked to them I realized that. I was just suggesting that it might be a good time to try to bring the Clancy Search to attention in the UK... if someone could see a way to accomplish that. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:21:04 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: grid map MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Porter Ric, I think that the grid map is a fantastic idea. Would it be possible to include a scale so that we armchair expeditioneers might get an accurate idea of the distances involved? Also: Originally, one benefit of the satellite image was going to be the ability to geo-reference Niku so that you guys could use GPS equipment on-site. Has that been done, and if so, will it give you the ability to go directly to the anomaly? LTM, Dave Porter, 2288 (who hopes that with all the new folks hanging around, my days as the only Detroit TIGHAR will soon be coming to an end) **************************************************************************** From Ric The grid map will divide the island into blocks that are 140 meters (about 450 feet) square on a map that will be 18 x 24 inches. We're still working on the GPS/georeferencing system, but we won't need that to go to the anomaly. Being so close to the Norwich City should make it easy to find (famous last words). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:23:34 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Pingrey Herman, Pilots were not any better in the old days. The difference is that we all flew tail draggers because that was what we had available to fly. We didn't know there was an easier design called a nose wheel type airplane or if we did we couldn't afford to fly one any way. Thus we just went ahead and learned in the tail dragger and didn't give it much thought. Now days everyone tells new pilots that tail draggers are hard to fly so they believe that it must be true. If no one ever told then they were hard to fly and students were taught in tail draggers they would learn just as fast to fly them as we did. I leasrned to fly in the 1950s and most people flew tail draggers at that time. Most of us soloed in 8 to 10 hours. Again, it is not because we were better back then but now we have to cover so many added things in addition to take off and landing that it takes longer. I soloed three students during the past two weeks at between 15 and 20 hours each. All three are good pilots but we couldn't get all the required things done and get take off and landing mastered any sooner then 15 hours. It takes a lot of time just to master radio procedures and stay out of the way of the commercial jets that were in the pattern with us. Dick Pingrey 908C **************************************************************************** From Ric I still refer to tailwheel airplanes as having "conventional gear." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:24:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: UK press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King But Phil's right about this being a good time to re-try our attempts to find Gallagher connections. What do you propose to do, Phil? ******************************************************************** From Ric I think that was Vern. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:27:15 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: More on the cables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194: For what it may be worth, here is more to add to the body of knowledge regarding the "coaxial cables:" I have personally examined one of these artifacts. The connectors are intact on both ends. Their nickel or nickel-silver plating is in pretty good shape, discolored to be sure, but not corroded. They showed few signs of pitting, such as might have been caused by sand. The tin-lead solder used to attach them to the cable itself was likewise in reasonable shape, with some, but not excessive sign of corrosion or erosion such as might result from long-term salt water immersion. The connectors exhibited no sign of marine growth. Indeed, the connectors were in good enough shape, that I could easily have desoldered, cleaned up and reused them. (I digress for a moment: A number of years ago, I found a vacuum tube sticking out of the sand on a beach here in NC, washed in with the tide... it was a US Navy type 5Y3WGT, and I have no idea where it may have come from; perhaps thrown off a passing ship. The tube had been in the water a while; the glass envelope was intact, the ruggedized bakelite base was very slightly eroded and the solder in the base pins was a little corroded. I could not resist wire-brushing the pins and testing it. Weak, but functional....) The connectors were intact and not severely bent or deformed. I actually checked this by mating one of them to a female connector such as they were designed to be used with. The outer ferrule easily screwed onto the other connector without protest from out-of-round or damaged threads. The ferrule was missing from the other, as I recall; the cable, as found, was broken in two pieces. In this event it would have been easy for the ferrule to be lost. These connectors did not appear to have been sheared off of anything. No residue of a mating connector was found attached to them, if I examined them in the same condition as found, and I believe I did. They had to have been removed from whatever they were attached to, by disconnecting them in the normal manner. This type of screw-on fitting does not normally unscrew itself. To anticipate a question: This type connector is not designed to be "safety wired" in the manner of many modern avionics devices. All this isn't to say the connectors and cables are not from NR16020; but if they were, someone just about had to have removed them from the wreck. To anticipate another question: The evidence regarding AE's radio equipment includes an anecdotal reference to a technician "repairing" the rig by reattaching a disconnected antenna lead to the Western Electric receiver mounted under the copilot's seat, following her ferry of NR16020 to the West Coast prior to the first attempt. This anecdote is not evidence with regard to these connectors, because the WE-20 receiver did not use this type connector for antenna input. Rather, a spring-loaded push-type binding post was used. Bendix equipment, however, did make use of these connectors. LTM (who feels a little wrecked, herself, after Saturday night) and 73 Mike E. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:31:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 2-2-V-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ric: Some time back, you published a list of aircraft losses in or near the Phoenix Group. I know you have made efforts to match 2-2-V-1 to various aircraft, but I'm curious about how many of the aircraft types (of those lost in that area) you actually have been able to go over. The one which caught my eye at the time was the following (whose route may have passed close to or over Niku). The chance of floating debris from distant crashes/downings reaching Niku may be small, but probably cannot be eliminated as a possible source. October 20, 1943 USN PB4Y-1 BuNo 32102 of VB-106 Missing enroute from Canton to Funafuti. Nine crew. TOM MM **************************************************************************** From Ric A PB4Y-1 was basically a Navy B-24D. We've had remarkable access (including the use of a "cherry-picker") to the B-24D "Strawberry Bitch" at the USAF Museum and we can't find any place that even comes close to matching 2-2-V-1. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:33:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Was the area in question searched before? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Was the area off the reef searched by divers before where the fisherman say they saw wreckage?? If not, why?? Chris *************************************************************************** From Ric Not. Some of the reef edge south of the shipwreck was searched by our divers in 1989 but on the day they were in the area north of the wreck the ocean was too rough to permit close approach to the reef. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:39:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: a few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, I got to thinking about what Angus suggested regarding the bulb base, so I did a little digging on the 'net. It seems flashbulbs came into common use in the early 1930's, and the first flashbulb produced in the UK was the Sashalite. Made by General Electric, I think. The Sashalite was equipped with exactly the same type base as found on Niku - and in fact an advertisement from Kodak publication "Snapshots at Night" (published in 1934) has a picture of the bulb. The base is an exact match, for shape. In fact, in the text of the ad, there's a disclaimer that it should not be used in a regular electrical appliance - that it should be used only in the appropriate battery unit. This implies to me that the base of the bulb is the same configuration as a regular light bulb from the UK for the era. I think Angus has hit the nail on the head with this one. That would go a long way to explaining why it was found where it was. After all a used flash bulb is just so much trash. The site can be found at http://www.dhios.demon.co.uk/Flashbulbs/Bulbs/Sasha-ad.htm . ltm jon 2266 **************************************************************************** From Ric I really really like this hypothesis. Maybe Gallagher took his own "Sashalite image" of the skull. (sorry) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:41:03 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Radio Austrailia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Phil Tanner You'll probably have to move quickly to get it as the soundfiles are changed at least once a day, but there is audio of a Radio Australia report on the latest developments at http://www.abc.net.au/ra/pacbeat/audio.htm Includes remarks by Ric and brief voice recording of AE herself. I'm sending this off at in the small hours of the morning US East Coast time (0745 gmt) - the report will probably be there for another 12 hours maximum. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:51:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: a few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King > I really really like this hypothesis. Maybe Gallagher took his own > "Sashalite image" of the skull. (sorry) > Which brings us back to the need to try to find Gallagher's effects, and this really would seem to be a good time to get some attention in the UK, but how? ************************************************************************* From Ric While I agree that this latest hypothesis about the lightbulb base would seem to increase the chances that Gallagher took a photo of the bones - and there's no doubt that we'd really like to see such a photo - how could finding it now impact our expeditions plans? Is this something we should be devoting a lot of time to now? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:52:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Add'l reef imagery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Last time I checked, they didn't have Nikumaroro/Gardner Island. The NASA and Landsat photos are much poorer resolution that the spaceimaging data we have. Daniel Postellon TIGHAR #2263 (I used to be a Detroit TIGHAR, but I moved to Grand Rapids.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:45:56 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Coaxial Cables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Evans For Mike E. You wondered if any of the Loran crew remembers had two-way radios on the mobile equipment. There were no-such radios on any of the equipment during construction or long range operation. I couldn't tell you if there was any such equipment during the dismantling of the station. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:47:41 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Groundloops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Evans All this talk about ground loops. Has anyone considered that one of the wheels may have dropped into one of the small crevasses on the coral reef while the plane was moving in a slow motion? Dick Evans *************************************************************************** From Ric Coulda happened, but the point is that there is no evidence that a groundloop did happen. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:50:48 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: a few wild ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Holt > While I agree that this latest hypothesis about the lightbulb base would seem > to increase the chances that Gallagher took a photo of the bones - and > there's no doubt that we'd really like to see such a photo - how could > finding it now impact our expeditions plans? Is this something we should be > devoting a lot of time to now? As long as you have all this in the public eye, why not give it a shot? In six months no one will be interested. Someone in the UK would have to actually do the work, I would think. Mike Holt *************************************************************************** From Tom King > Is this something we should be devoting a lot of time to now? Not we expeditionaries, but others on the Forum, sure. I wouldn't expect impact on the expedition plans unless a photo showed up that showed where the skull was excavated, but there are lots of folks who AREN'T involved in expedition planning, and this would be useful research for them to pursue. TK **************************************************************************** From Ric Agreed. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:09:56 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 2-3-V-2 Plexiglas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Andy Ric, I myself have been asking the same question about artifact 2-3-V-2, the curved plexiglas. How much effort would be required to compare this artifact with the plexiglas on all the other aircraft types that went down within 450nm of Niku? Would TIGHAR view this object as