========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:05:44 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Crouch, Ric and Evidence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kenton (no L) Spading, Type S, 1382CE Randy J. wrote: >>I've not bet the farm (yet) on the Niku hypothesis, but I sure do like the >>methodology, tenacity, and sheer determination involved in the historical >>research. Besides, it is the journey, not the destination, that is the most >>important thing in life. I rather like this particular journey...it keeps >>my mind sharp. Spading responds: Randy...Thank you for summing this up rather nicely. I agree with your thoughts. I too am enjoying the journey immensely and indeed it does keep ones mind sharp. My..."List the Top 3 Reasons"....post had/does have two purposes. No. 1. Attempt to (as Randy stated) sharpen Forum members thoughts as to why the Niku Hypothesis is valid and worth testing. Every once in a while, as the body of evidence matures, you have to reassess how you have arrived at the point in the journey you have choosen to take. When you are on a trek, you should always study your compass once in a while and compare it to the folks you are following. No. 2. To test a Forum-related Hypothesis of mine that suggests that the Forum membership (and the non-Forumite population) is comprised of basically three types of individuals as follows: a. (Forum Type E's) These are people who favor the Niku Hypothesis for mostly Emotional (Type E) reasons albiet good reasons. Those reasons echo Dennis M's reply. TIGHAR's methodology is good (test an hypothesis), TIGHAR is credible (peer review accepted), TIGHAR has evidence (artifacts), TIGHAR shares its research (the Forum) etc., etc.. These folks like the Hypothesis because it sounds good and it makes for a nice story. A bunch of pieces of information form an interesting relationship (LOP, dado, plexi, bones etc.) and they all seem to line up about right. Type E's insist that it just cannot be all coincidental. In general these folks place the odds that Earhart/Noonan ended up on Niku at approx. 70 percent with a sizable number coming much higher. Type E's tend to be inpatient with folks who like to resolve picky details b. (Forum Type S's) These folks find the Niku Hypothesis interesting from a Scientific (Type S) stand point....almost by default as scientists love hypothesis of any sort. Type S's enjoy all the same things Type E's favor (methods, credibility, research etc..) as those are solid scientific principles. But Type S's are more cautious than Type E's as evidenced by both Randy J's and Marty M's response to the Top 3 question. Type S's recognize the fact that a group of seemingly UNRELATED variables could be related (e.g. El Nino). In turn, a group of seemingly RELATED variables could be totally unrelated (e.g. sunspots and droughts in the U.S.). A scientists reputation, among other things, is dependent on not being lured by either one of these mistresses until the facts clearly fall into place. Some would argue that because of this, most scientific investigations move too slow. In general these folks place the odds that Earhart/Noonan ended up on Niku at not more than 60 percent with a sizable number around 50/50 or below. If you are between 60 and 70 percent you need to get off the fence and form an opinion :).! Type S's tend to be inpatient with folks who prefer to ignore picky details. c. (Forum Type ENS's) These are people who approach the Earhart mystery from an Emotionally Non-Scientific (Type ENS) angle. They are very, very emotionally attached to a Non-TIGHAR theory and do not feel a need to follow the scientific method. They choose not divulge their sources or worry about issues involving anecdotal stories or other such details. You either agree with them or you don't and there is not much room for debate. Type ENS's are inpatient with both E's and S's. ************* We need E's, S's and ENS's in this world and in this investigative journey. All tend to keep the other side honest while at the same time rolling their eyes at each other (e.g. what the H, E, double L is that *%@# thinking!). All three types have contributed to this investigation. In fact in the past month alone all three have done things to move this investigation forward. I caution folks to be more tolerant of the various Forum member types. Perhaps TIGHAR needs a Meyers-Briggs type of test to help people to work better together. LTM Kenton Spading, Type S, 1382CE, Myers-B ESTP, (who enjoys debate with S's, E's and ENS's) **************************************************************************** From Ric Okay, I'll bite (and demonstrate my ignorance). What's a Meyers-Briggs test? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:09:31 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: sun rise, sun set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Pratt U. S. Naval Observatory provides the sun rise and set times for a year, anywhere and anytime. The URL is: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/AA/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html Just for reference, here's the excerpt for early July, 1937. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX o , o , GARDNER ISLAND Location: W174 32, S04 40 Rise and Set for the Sun for 1937 Zone: 11.50h West of Greenwich July Day Rise Set h m h m 01 0616 1807 02 0616 1808 03 0616 1808 04 0617 1808 05 0617 1808 06 0617 1809 07 0617 1809 08 0617 1809 09 0617 1809 10 0617 1809 I used Itasca time (I hope) for local time. LTM John Pratt 2373 ************************************************************** **************From Ric Yes, you did. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:22:11 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Meyers-Briggs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Ric said: "Okay, I'll bite (and demonstrate my ignorance). What's a Meyers-Briggs test?" Oh, Ric, you silly goose! That's the company that make lawn mower engines. LTM, who loves to putt-putt around Dennis O. McGee #0149EC *************************************************************************** From Ric So a Meyers-Briggs test would be how many pulls it takes to get it started? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 14:35:54 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Meyers-Briggs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Bush Ric: The Meyers-Briggs test is actually a "personality" categorizing "test". There are no correct or incorrect answers. Each anwer places you in one of several types of "personalities." There are a number of such tests, some more involved than others. With the Meyers-Briggs, there are about 200,000,000 questions that you have to answer (actually only 3 questions, but asked over and over and over again with different formats in order to insure that you actually answer every one of them identically - however, if you answer everyone of them EXACTLY the same, they think you are being a smart ass, so you have to miss one out of every ten to seem NORMAL because no one is that consistent in their personality - except me, I miss the one in ten ON PURPOSE, so they won't think that I am a smart ass, tho I still get accused of it on occasion). Psychological tests are always a lot of fun because you can play with the answers and get a different "personality" on every test (or give them the personality they are looking for on that particular occasion). They anticipate that everyone will answer the test based on the way they would actually respond in everyday life, thus clumping you into one of three types of personalities. Type "A", "E" or "S" for some tests or into quadrants for others where you have factors that put you on a sliding scale depending on whether you are under stress or understressed or whatever. There are probably a dozen or more and they are always being re-defined as the psycho-anlytical types learn more about our psyches. LTM, Dave Bush #2200 **************************************************************************** From Ric Ohh okay. I know the tests you mean. Actually there are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who divide everything into groups and those who don't. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 14:47:56 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Satellite photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Unfortunately, not of Niku or Howland There is a good 4 meter resolution photo or Baker Island at . One of the US coral reef programs recently bought a lot of images from these people, but I can't find out if it included Niku. Their website says that you can see underwater to a depth of 30 meters, which is deeper that you would want to dive for any prolonged period. You can play around with the larger image, even with a program like Microsoft picture it, and enhance the outlines of old buildings on the island. Is anyone interested in pursuing buying a custom 1 meter photo of Niku? The price is out of my range. Dan Postellon Tighar #2263 **************************************************************************** From Ric If there actually was such a creature we should probably find a way to get our hands on it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:26:59 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: personal exp with bounced radio signals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Rehm hi-- christopher rehm here-- new member to the list. i have a personal experience with bounced radio signals that may be of interest to the group, in light of th ebetty note book. in 1987 i was a forward observer in panama with the 2/187 abn inf btn(lt), fort kobbe panama. we were on the atlantic side of the canal , on fort sherman training area. i was carrying my own radio that day, a prc -77 , and was flipping thru freqs, trying to pick up the radio signals of our opponent in a military exercise. i found some one tranmitting on a freq not in our code book (CEOI) -- but also not involved in our training exercise; one could tell that the communication was of an admin nature. ( other radio op was looking for commo check and asking any reciever to let him know which fireing range he was on). i talked to this guy for a few minutes, when be both realized that we were at least 1500 miles apart-- he at fort bragg, nc and me in panama. we were both using the little whip antenna that comes with the prc -77 -- no more than 2 ft long. we talked on and off for at least 20 min-- we were both very surprised that we could talk to each other, but both of us had heard of other incidents of this nature. so here is one instance of a radio signal bouncing quite a ways with a small antenna and low power transmitter. if anyone cares for more details please feel free to ask any questions-- thought that in light of some of the archived messages regarding the ability of radio signals to bounce off of the atmosphere you all might be interested in a first hand experience. chris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:02:04 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Lo-band "very high frequency" (VHF) (40 mhz) military radios normally communicate on a line of sight. However, when. there is a peak in the sunspot cycle (every 11 years) they can send and receive for thousands of miles resulting in unwanted interference with local communications. The last peak was about 1990 and the cycle may well be peaking again. (VHF was not used in aviation until after WW2) The radio equipment on the Earhart flight used what is known as "high frequency, 3 -30 Mhz" (HF) . The 3 mhz would be used at night while the 7 mhz was used during the day. My guess is that the normal range would be several hundred miles. Tom Byers (Springfield, MO) **************************************************************************** From Ric If I'm not mistaken (and if I am I'll hear about it) there was some VHF used for plane-to-plane communication during WWII. Earhart's particular radio set up and its capabilities have been and will, I'm sure, continue to be the subject of much debate on this forum. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:37:08 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: personal exp with bounced radio signals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Pete Thank you for the back up Chris Rehm! I encountered the same thing during a Med deployment. The Frigate in my escrot screen could not hear me, but I talked to a station in Sicily from the middle of the Atlantic like the guy was in the same room with me. My radio gear, on a carrier, by specs was to be unable to have comms with them, but I did, for more than an hour. Ric, you DID take a vacation right? Pete **************************************************************************** From Ric You betcha I did. Can't you tell? I haven't smacked anybody in days. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:39:48 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Pete My 11 meg was classified "LOW band" , as these days search radars operate in Gigahertz. Judging my last Med cruise capabilities against what ANY station had in 1937 is not at all fair. Like taking a man-pack PRC-77 against what a WW2 infantry unit had. I'm in college to have a Degree in Electronics, and TK has a PhD. I am not the only one that can attest to propagation effects. Mike has forgotten more about how a radio with tubes works than I'll learn. Niku IIII launches when I'm about to graduate. I asked my CPA brother in Chicagoland about moving that black needle. If I could go, I would. 3 Med cruises here. (Ric, sheet of plastic wrap and canteen cup?) We can all spend days fighting amongst ourselves, every minute will count on Niku. Settle the fights now? Pete **************************************************************************** From Ric Fights? What fights? We're all one big happy collegial family in search of truth - right? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:33:13 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Cartoon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Evans Katz I saw this today and I thought that the Forum would enjoy it. david Katz --------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have been sent a cartoon from David Evans Katz Please read below to find out how to view your cartoon......... (Just copy & paste the address onto your browser's address box.) http://aolsvc.toonville.aol.com/main.asp?fnum=148&pathb=/Content1/Grimmy/01040 1.gif ************************************************************************** From Ric That's a good one. It was first published following our March 1992 press conference. There were at least a dozen Earhart/TIGHAR cartoons that made the rounds at that time. I wish I could run the whole collection on the website but it would cost a fortune in royaties. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:59:15 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: No Subject MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Rehm odd thing isnt it. i didnt believe it when other soldiers told me that this sort of thing would happen-- thought it was basically an old wives tale. well i was wrong. at any rate it says to me that betty could have actually heard AE and FN -- it is at least in the realm of possiblity. personally i think she very well may have-- there is something rather eeriee and chilling about the transcripts that does not strike me as a radio drama, or fake, but the real thing. i did some radio drama in college years ago-- what i have see of the transcripts does not look like any radio drama i ahve ever seen; nor does it look ANYTHING like what a radio drama would have looked like in 1937.if it was AE/FN it would be a desperate transmission-- they would have been quite scared at that point, i think. remember, 1937 was not now and being on an uninhabited atoll in the pacific was and still is about as isolated as you can get. also having spent many nights in the jungle, in the army , i can tell you the first night in the tropics alone or with one other person can be a very frightening thing. question: why is it that we always assume that FN was injured??-- is it because of Jean Cochrans psyhic vision??? it seems to me that in almost every version of the AE/ FN stories/rumors, in every one where they did not just crash and burn into the sea FN is ALWAYS reputed to have a head injury. just curious why the assumption that FN was injured, by all chris **************************************************************************** From Ric I think you mean Jackie Cochran. Yes, it's strange. I can't explain it. I'm quite sure that the story of Cochran's psychic vision did not become public until years after the disappearance. You'll notice that Betty's notebook itself contains no reference to a head injury; it merely portays an irrational Noonan. Another alleged short-wave reception of an Earhart distress call, this one by Mable Dunklee who lived in Amarillo, TX, describes Noonan being "seriously injured" but not specifically in the head. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:05:50 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom Byers I wonder if any photos exist of the radio equip used by Earhart. Tom Byers (Springfield, MO) **************************************************************************** From Ric If you mean photos of the equipment when it was installed in the airplane, very few. Most of it was hidden from view. The receiver was under the copilot's seat and the dynmotor was under the pilot's seat. The transmitter was on the floor of the cabin under the navigator's table. There is a photo of AE sitting on the tranmsmitter before the table was installed. A few cockpit shots also show the remote for the receiver. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:55:49 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Satellite photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Pete Hello Ric/Forum! I re-read the post, and got to thinking. There was an outfit that was selling images from Soviet satellites I saw in an old catalog. I wonder, if Canton Island was a missile test facility, maybe of those sats passed over Niku on it's way to view Canton. I'm not sure what the resolution would be. There may even have been a pass of Niku to see if the Loran station was restored, or any tracking systems installed. I'll have to try a Net search for images like that, and report what I can come up with. Here goes...... Pete ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:17:25 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Castaways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Have there been any papers written on the emotional and psychological effects be being marooned? I'm serious. I know there have been studies on POWs, survivors of all types of disasters, etc., but has anyone tried to get into the head of a person who is hopelessly (?) lost/marooned/abandoned and document the evolution of the individual's metal and emotional health. (But then maybe if a person is hopelessly (?) lost/marooned/abandoned, by definition no one can find them and therefore there is no opportunity to learn from that experience.) I hesitate to take any clues from Hollywood's versions of this problem -- Tom Hanks' "Castaway," "Robinson Carusoe" etc.-- but that seems to be about all we have to go on. I'm not even sure if this would be applicable to our problem, but then again . . . LTM, who always wants to be saved! Dennis O. McGee #0149EC **************************************************************************** From Ric I'm not aware of any studies but I would think that there would be tremendous variation in individual response due to all sorts of factors - more so than, say, with POWs who at least have some military training in common. You mention Robinson Crusoe (although you make him Italian) and I think its an important point. Defoe's novel was based upon the real-life experiences of a Scottish castaway by the name of Alexander Selkirk. The book has long been a staple of English literature and was read by virtually every well-educated English-speaking child until Gen X. I would be very surprised if Amelia Earhart had not read it. "Robinson Crusoe" is a cultural text book for what to do if you're marooned on a desert island. - Return to the ship before it breaks up to salvage anything of use. - Find a source of fresh water - Make optimal use of local materials. - Establish your campsite someplace where you have adequate shelter but can easily access a lookout post where you can watch the horizon for ships. - Beware of visitors. They may be cannibals or pirates. The other classic literary castaway is Ben Gunn in Stevenson's "Treasure Island." The message there is that people marooned on islands tend to go bonkers. Having been marooned on a few myself, its a valid observation. ("You wouldn't happen to have a piece of cheese on you..would you?"). LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:21:39 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AE's radio gear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Ric said: "A few cockpit shots also show the remote for the receiver." I'm a little confused what this "remote" was. Could you explain it a little more? Thanks. LTM, who's often too remote Dennis O. McGee #0149EC **************************************************************************** From Ric In those days radios were heavy and bulky and could not be mounted in a cockpit instrument panel. Big airplanes had separate radio operator compartments where a guy could sit at the radios mounted in racks. In Earhart's case the radio were stuffed wherever there was room and a separate control box was "remotely" located on the instrument panel and connected to the radios by cables. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:27:21 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom Byers Its interesting that Noonan, who was both a radio operator and navigator, did not have easy access to the radio. Of course, in 1937 radio navigation technology was in its infancy. I wonder what kind of radio equipment the Itasca had? It would appear that its operators were inexperienced in its proper use. Tom **************************************************************************** From Ric We've come across no evidence to indicate that Noonan had either training or experience as a radio operator. Aboard the Pan Am Clippers there was a dedicated radio operator in addition to the navigator. The Itasca's radio capabilities were fairly extensive but you're correct, its operators were not highly trained or experienced. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:32:37 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Cartoon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Holt Great cartoon! I should use it as wallpaper .... Do those cartoons you mention, Ric, have URLs? **************************************************************************** From Ric Unfortunately, no. They date from way back in 1992 before most of us had ever heard of a URL. They exist only as clippings. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:34:40 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194: For photos of the receiver (exterior and interior), look in "Modern Aircraft Radio," a 1937 textbook... darn it I cannot remember the author, but it's listed in the bibliography of my 8th Edition article on the equipment. the transmitter is little more than a "black box" outside. Some of the old aviation mags like "Southern Flight" and "Aero Digest" have full page Western Electric ads which show this equipment nicely. Look for the 20-series receivers (20A, 20B0 and the 13-series transmitters. LTM (who knows a picture is worth 100 words) and 73 Mike E. **************************************************************************** From Ric We have copies of those ads. We should scan them and drop them into your 8th Edition article. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:48:51 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Tom Hanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jim Kellen Ric, Did you ever make contact with Tom Hanks? I believe I heard him say on Leno the other night that he got the idea for the movie "Castaway" from watching a story on TV about "some guys" who were looking for Amelia Earhart on an island in the Pacific. He made comments about shoe parts and aluminum panels and how quickly man made materials and human remains deteriorate under the conditions on such an island as the one where his film was made. Jim Kellen 2331 ****************************************************************************Fr om Ric We got a message to Hanks within hours of his initial reference to us on Good Morning America. We also later reached him through a friend of a friend to whom he responded that the TIGHAR people had already found him "faster than they did Emilia (sic)". So far I have had no direct communication from Mr. Hanks. He's probably intimidated by all of the celebrities we have here on the Forum. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:32:45 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Satellite photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag You might have something there Pete. (Canton or Kanton-which is it Ric?) Besides Pan Am using it as a stepping stone to Austrailia, the Air Force had an installation built during WWII and was abandoned in the 1960's. NASA built a satellite tracking station there in 1965 and abandoned it in 1967. Mix this with a little cold-war paranoia and you might find nice glossy or two. Good luck! Doug Brutlag #2335 **************************************************************************** From Ric It was Canton until it officially became part of Kiribati in 1979 and then became Kanton. Pan Am first used the lagoon as a seaplane landing/refueling base in 1939. The Army built a runway in 1941 and the island was a heavily-used refueling stop all through the war. After the war and thoughout the 1950s it was a vital transpacific refueling stop for both American and British airliners. Nonstop jets made it obsolete in the early 1960s but, as you say, NASA had a telemetry station there from 1965 to 1967. In 1970 the USAF used the Phoenix Group as a target area for multiple (dummy) warhead ICBMs launched from Vandenberg AFB, California. Canton was the main base of operations. That operation ended in 1973. In 1979 the island became part of the new nation of Kiribati. Nothing much has happened there since then. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:05:23 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Robinson Crusoe/Alexander Selkirk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dick Pingrey Ric, Is this the same Alexander Selkirk who was a chief factor of the Hudson Bay Company in Canada and for whom the Selkirk Mountain Range in the western Rocky Mountains was named? Dick Pingrey 908C **************************************************************************** From Ric Nope. Different guy. Alexander Selkirk (originally Selcraig) was born in 1676 in Largo, Fifeshire (Scotland, of course), the son of a shoemaker (or "souter" as in the U.S. Supreme Court justice David Souter, but we digress). In 1695, young Selkirk ran away to sea and fell in with a band of buccaneers. In September 1704, after a quarrel with the captain he was put ashore at his own request (!) on the uninhabited island of Mas a Tierre in the Juan Fernandez Group about 400 miles west of Valparaiso, Chile. He remained there alone for five years until he was discovered by an English ship in Febraury 1709. He died at sea in 1721 as a mate on a British ship. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:08:50 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Radial motor on Canton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Anthony Lealand The discussion on the radial motor taken from Niku to Canton ended with a comment that the helicopters never flew out away off Canton. So end of story. Perhaps officially they did not fly offshore, but maybe even at this late stage pilots are loath to admit such flights. Surely buddies on the base would remember such an odd object and could verify the arrival of a peice of ancient junk. Anthony Lealand **************************************************************************** From Ric But, so far, none has. One former-associate of Bruce Yoho's remembers that Bruce had an old engine propped up outside the maintenance shack for a while but he does not recall where it came from. Bruce recalls taking home movies of the actual recovery but he can't find them. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:11:28 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Photos of Niku at Wigram Airforce Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Anthony Lealand I live in Christchurch and would be able to see if it is possible to get a high resolution scan of the photo of the reef wreckage on Niku. Is there a file or collection number for the photo that will reference it at the museum? Anthony Lealand ************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks, but we have copy negatives of the photos at Wigram. The photo we need to scan is not at Wigram; it's at Oxford University in England. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:22:36 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: WOJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Hue Miller WOJ is one of the call letters mentioned in Betty's logbook. Altho WOJ is listed in the postwar Berne station listings, I am unable to determine when the station began. I suggest 1935 or 1936, because that is when AT&T's WO* stations first appear, located in New Jersey and Florida. If i recall, the Berne list does not show the owner, but it the station can be associated with other known AT&T stations by the similar call, the location, and the stated service.I was unable to find in the radio enthusiast magazines of the period, any reception report on WOJ, altho there are frequent mentions of WOO and another WO* station or 2. I would guess, that WOJ was the call letters for an infrequently used frequency channel, or was a call letter assigned AT&T and maybe held but practically never used. These stations at first were dual purpose, serving telephone system interface to both overseas telephones and to ships, but it appears over the years the land service faded away, no doubt with improved cable capacity and finally, satellite systems. In fact, satellite communications is what finally did these AT&T stations in: AT&T closed all their remaining HF stations on Feb. 28, 1999, so after that date the call letters WOO, WOM, WOK, WOJ, and others would be unassigned. (This date per article in Popular Communications.) There are still a couple, just a couple, of stations in the USA providing SSB telephone access to ships, one on Alabama coast and one at San Francisco (if i'm not mistaken). Clearly, HF voice radio is in a steady decline in use. As to why Betty wrote down "WOJ", that's still open. I think it was discussed that she was writing down possibilities for what she might have heard. Another possiblity is that she briefly heard a snatch of actual WOJ. In the Betty reception scene, we are pretty much agreed that if it happened, it had to happen on one of the higher wavebands, multiples of AE's transmitter channels, that means approximately 12 - 18 MHz. ( Higher? not likely i think - harmonic output from AE's transmitter at higher frequencies "might" be too low to be useful. Also - her neighbor was able to hear parts of it - and "assuming" his radio was not a top-end, high cost set, unlike Betty's, it would not be expected to tune much higher than 18 or 20 MHz). In those days, radios were just not that stable on the high ranges - no amount of bucks could buy you total stability. That means that unless the radio had been warming up for hours before Betty used it, and she tuned in after switching it on, you would expect that after 15 or 20 minutes at 15 MHz or above, you would need to readjust the tuning on whatever she was listening to, and then again maybe after the same period of time. What i am suggesting is a possible explanation of how WOJ or snatch of whatever other communcation got mixed up in there- perhaps in the tweaking of the tuning knob to try to bring the station in better, something else was briefly brought in. "Howland Port" ??? "WOJ" ??? There is (was) a WOJ, but at Hialeah, not Howland. Hue Miller **************************************************************************** From Ric My personal opinion is that all the agonizing over WOJ is for naught. According to Betty's notebook she heard either W40K or WOJ. We've already determined that there was a HAM, Francis Carroll, with the call sign W40K living in Palm Beach, FL at the time (and on the same propagation path from Gardner as Batty in St. Pete) and who, at least anecdotally, claimed to have talked to Earhart. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:29:27 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Reception by Swan? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Ric, Rereading Devine's book, he cites an interview with Itasca Radioman O'hare claiming that the Swan received the last known AE signal (the 08:43 LOP),some 2000 miles away. Any record of the Swan receiving that signal ? It seems to me he later retracted that claim. LTM, Ron Bright **************************************************************************** From Ric We have Swan's deck log. There is no mention of hearing anything from Earhart. I'm not even sure that Swan had voice capability on Earhar'ts frequencies. Had Swan heard anything it's hard to imagine that it would not have been mentioned in any of the official reports. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:45:28 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From The Itasca carried radio transmitters were calibrated to 7500,6210,3105,500 & 425 kilocycles. The Itasca's radio direction finder frequency range was from 550 to 570 kilocycles. This was a low frequency radio direction finder which was permanent equiptment aboard ship. There was also an emergency high frequency Navy radio direction finder, sent from Pearl Harbor, which was installed on Howland Island. This was powered by the ship's gun batterys, which had run down during the night, so apparently no one realized that it wasn't working. This was accompanied by a Richard Black, an official of the Dept. of the Interior,who was also a personal representative of G.P. ,who also later became a Rear Admiral in the Navy. By the way, does anyone know anything about an XC-35 or NR16020 /R16020/N16020 ? There seems to have been several planes with this number or alot of changes to one planes number. LTM Allan Rickman **************************************************************************** From Ric Where are you getting your information Allan? What made Black a "personal representative" of George Putnam? Dick Black was an employee of the U.S. Dept. of the Interior and certainly not the representative of any private citizen. The XC-35 was, and is, a one-off pressurized version of the Lockheed Model 10. The airplane is now stored at the Garber Facility in Suitland, Maryland. I've crawled all through it. Earhart's Electra was constructor's number 1055 (the 55th Model 10 built). Before delivery to AE on July 24, 1936 it was registered X16020 because it was in the Experimental category while Lockheed checked out the special long-range fuel system. When it was delivered to Earhart she registered it as R16020 because it was licensed only in the Resticted category until it was approved for international flight at which time it became NR16020. That approval was granted in September 1936 but they didn't paint the N on the airplane until about January 1937. Many years after Earhart disappeared, her friend Paul Mantz registered his Lockheed 12A "Electra Junior" N16020 in memory of Amelia. Later the airplane was sold and crashed. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:01:06 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Tom Hanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Denise Well, I think it's great that Tom Hanks got the idea of doing "Castaway" from you guys, but I think it needs to be said that the reality of the castaway situation completely fazed him. During filming in Fiji he cut his foot on a piece of coral and the subsequent infection immediately sent him running from the islands ... and all further filming was done on a Hollywood sound stage. Seems it was just too much "real life" for his taste! LTM (who thinks Amelia would have preferred to have been given the Tom Hanks choice) Denise **************************************************************************** From Ric Well, that's Hollywood. As you know, it's easy to get cut on coral but there's no excuse for letting it become infected if you have modern medical facilities available. You have to aggressively treat the cut with hydrogen peroxide and keep it clean and dry - and you'll still have a nice scar for a while. On the other hand, if you're a real castaway, infection, and ultimately blood poisoning, from a coral cut is probably the biggest threat you face. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:04:07 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Satellite photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Hello Ric/Forum! I re-read the post, and got to thinking. There was an outfit that was selling images from Soviet satellites I saw in an old catalog. Probably Nice site, but Niku or its co-ordinates are not in the data base. I got a good photo of my backyard, though. Dan Postellon Tighar#2263 LTM (who is watching) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:06:08 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Canton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Evans Katz Canton Island was also, I believe, Eddie Rickenbacker's intended destination when he went down in the Pacific during WWII. I may be wrong (it has been many years since I read the story), but I think that the flight crew somehow missed their intended mark and the plane ran out of fuel while searching for Canton. Is this correct, or is my memory failing me? David Evans Katz **************************************************************************** From Ric Yes, you are correct and yes, your memory is failing you (like all of us). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:08:18 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Technical queries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Phil Tanner I wonder if someone could email me off list phil.tanner@talk21.com with two bits of advice: I use Outlook Express and Explorer 5 1. I have accidentally blocked Forum messages and they go straight to my "deleted items" folder. I drag them from there, but it's a pain. I wanted to block another sender who was sending verbiage to a soccer list I subscribe to. After pulling down the "item" menu I clicked on "block sender", which offers three dots and therefore, I thought, would show further options. However, it cut out the middleman and put an immediate block on the sender of the message I happened to be in - which unfortunately was a Forum message, not one from the original nuisance. Creating a new rule to route them to my "Earhart" folder doesn't work as the block seems to supersede the new rule. 2. When I post to the list and a message comes back moderated, extra line feeds appear making it harder to read. The same applies to postings from several other Forum members - Ross Wombat and Hue Muller for two. My email works via a mailbox and via a web page, and if I post from the web page line feeds come back in the more normal format. Anything I can do at this end to compress the incoming text? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:04:05 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Tom Hanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag Just curious Ric. Have you issued a membership card for Mr. Hanks yet? Perhaps as a member he'd like to come down and have a beer with the TIGHAR guys & gals. I saw the movie recently and while I enjoyed the entertainment, the ditching scenario was just more movie B.S. FedEx got their money's worth. Doug Brutlag #2335 *************************************************************************** From Ric No, we've not sent Mr. Hanks a membership card. He knows who we are and how to get in touch with us if he's interested in our work. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:56:33 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Satellite Images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney If you do a Web search through Google (www.google.com) on the string (no quotes) "satellite and images and earth" there appear to be hundreds of Web sites that offer satellite immages...free or for sale. I recently saw an article somewhere (possibly the NY Times) about satellite images for sale with 1 meter resolution....with certain military bases "off limits." Janet Whitney ****************************************************************************Fr om Ric If anybody comes up with a satellite photo of Niku with 1 meter resolution please let me know. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:06:22 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Radio Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson Actually, Richard Black was GPP's representative for Howland Island. He had agreed to that somewhat reluctantly way back in March, 1937. **************************************************************************** From Ric Is there correspondence on that? Was he paid? Why would Putnam need a "representative" at Howland? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:15:43 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Tom Hanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Somehow, it strikes me that if Tom Hanks is truly interested in the Earhart/Niku saga (rather than using it for P.R. value to plug his film) he is in a position where he can pay for his own membership or assist in the funding/undertaking of the research and expeditions, themselves. --Chris Kennedy **************************************************************************** From Ric I agree. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:21:35 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Canton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Dipi For David Evans Katz: David, your memory is not failing you and neither is mine. I was stationed on CANTON WITH CO L 102nd INFANTRY FROM FEB 1942 UNTIL JUNE OR JULY 1942. MOST OF THE MEN WERE FROM TORRINGTON CONNECTICUT. ONE OF THE MEN ON THE RICKENBACKER PLANE WAS FROM TORRINGTON CT. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE ON THE RAFT THAT LOST HIS LIFE. HIS NAME WAS EDDIE KACZMARCK . SO YOU SEE DAVID WE ALL ARE NOT LOSING OUR MIND ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:29:55 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re W40K - new development MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Hue Miller If a supposition is that W4OK actually communicated with AE, or that AE heard W4OK and tried to call him, what might be the frequency or frequency band used? Remember the constraints of the loop antenna on the plane, its frequency limitation. And the differing liklihood of the different frequencies making the daylight path to Florida. Also why the puzzling notation "Howland port" ?? Anyone have a suggestion why that shows up in Betty's logbook? That would have to come from AE trying to raise a Howland station, yes? And in this view, maybe using the ham call letters because that's what she heard while tuning around? But still, this runs right into the antenna & frequency problem. Unless, the top, main aerial actually also served as receive antenna. ( Technically, also possible if the top antenna served as "sense" antenna as well as transmit antenna - in the RDF-1 system, the loop antenna input is nonfunctional above - we guess - 8000 kHz - but the sense antenna input is still there. That would require her switching, exasperated, from the "Bearing" position of the RDF-1 to the "Direction" position. ) Input? Argument? Hue Miller *************************************************************************** From Ric Seems to me that you're making a lot of assumptions about the RDF system. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:32:03 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Hanks/Crusoe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy There is a great column in today's Wall Street Journal called "Tom Hank's, You're No Robinson Crusoe" (p. A-22). This is in line with Ric's comments on the classic story "Robinson Crusoe" vs. Tom Hanks Hollywood opus, and the fact that Crusoe is not read today because it is politically incorrect. The column concludes as follows: "Robinson Crusoe's story is a classic of trial and redemption; Chuck's [Hanks] story has no meaning, because Chuck learns nothing, except that he needs to look for a new girlfriend........Chuck Nolan is truly a man of our times, lacking any inner life, having little to think about other than a lost love. He has no sense of religion and is utterly incapable of seaking meaning in his experiences or his life. Perhaps Nolan really is our everyman, a thoroughly modern man, sensitive to the environment and to relationships. But he is no Robinson Crusoe." --Chris Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:35:39 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Kanton, Photos and Engines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Kenton Spading Doug B. wrote: (Canton or Kanton-which is it Ric?) Besides Pan Am using it as a stepping stone to Austrailia, the Air Force had an installation built during WWII and was abandoned in the 1960's. NASA built a satellite tracking station there in 1965 and abandoned it in 1967. ************* Spading responds: All this talk about photos of Kanton reminds me of a loose thread. Why doesn't someone (I assume a member in California?) track down the aerial photos that the Air Force took of Kanton in the 1970's. The photos were taken to track the clean up effort before the AF bugged out. Bruce's engine might show up in one of those photos as it appears it was buried during the cleanup. It at least might show where it was. LTM Kenton S. **************************************************************************** From Ric How do we know photos were taken? If they were, by this time they might be in the National Archive. Do you recall the source on this? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:19:05 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Satellite Images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski >From Ric > > If anybody comes up with a satellite photo of Niku with 1 meter resolution > please let me know. I think this is a red herring. The maps available online or through various sales agencies seem to concentrate on: weather ex-military missions places that are populated I doubt very much that any 1-meter photos were ever taken of Niku. There are said to be three start-up companies providing hi-resolution photos (down to about 2-meter details). One of them may have its own satellite. The one company named that I saw (Space Imagery Inc of Thornton, Colorado) seemed not to have a web site and only deals in orders of about $1600 and up. Even if they could be persuaded to shoot Niku, I suspect that the TIGHAR team already knows about most objects that size on Niku that would be visible from the air (i.e., not hidden under the scaevola--hey, Ric, is there a nickname for that stuff that is easier to spell and more romantic?). Of course, I have not proven that the photos do not exist. What I'm really saying is that the ten minutes I spent looking for them discourages me from looking any further. ;o) Marty #2359 **************************************************************************** From Ric The Gilbertese call scaevola "te mao." We often call it "'vola" (as we call Nikumaroro "Niku"). We also call it other names that can't be published. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:19:41 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Sateliite Images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Here it is. Do you want to pursue this or drop it? Dan -----Original Message----- From: Joe, Eric [mailto:EJoe@SpaceImaging.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 4:10 PM To: 'Daniel.Postellon@spectrum-health.org' Cc: Niamke, Rosalind; Sears, Greg Subject: RE: TIGHAR Dear Mr. Postellon: Thank you for your interest in Space Imaging's products and services. In order to serve you better, we need you to provide your area of interest in coordinates. Note that the one you provide is over water in the Pacific Ocean. And depending on what type of resolution(details) you like, we have different satellite to suit your needs there. Please also visit us at http://www.spaceimaging.com/level2/level2products.htm for a description of different products. Kind Regards, Eric S. Joe Customer Service Representative Space Imaging www.spaceimaging.com ejoe@spaceimaging.com Ph 1-800-232-9037 Fax 301-552-3762 -----Original Message----- From: Customer Services Dept. Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 7:45 PM To: Joe, Eric Subject: FW: TIGHAR -----Original Message----- From: Daniel.Postellon@spectrum-health.org [mailto:Daniel.Postellon@spectrum-health.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 10:11 AM To: info@spaceimaging.com Subject: TIGHAR I am a member of a non-profit organization, . They will be running an expedition to Nikumaroro, Kiribati (4.6666667 degrees S, 174.5333333 degrees W) in September of 2001 to look for evidence of the end of Amelia Earhart. Details are available on the website. I do not speak for the organization, but would you consider providing them data prior to the expedition, or providing news satellite photos during the expedition? Daniel Postellon I tried to see if Spaceimaging would do a free one for us, but did not get a reply. You can order a custom photo (1 meter resolution B+W or 4 meter resolution in color) for about $3,000. I also suggested that maybe they would want to take a photo of Niku 4. Dan Postellon TIGHAR#2263 **************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Dan. This has real possibilities and I intend to follow up on it directly with Spaceimaging. If we're really talking about ballpark $3,000 and we can get one meter resolution (especially if we can see down through the water to a depth of at least 10 meters) it would be money well-spent. It's not in the budget but I'm sure the TIGHAR membership would rise to the challenge. We would, of course, put the image up on the TIGHAR website. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:21:07 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Cast Away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194: Admittedly this is a borderline thread, but: If you have not seen "Cast Away" I highly recommend it. This movie will give you a real appreciation for how difficult it is to get on/off an island with a coral reef. Also the magnitude of the challenge to keep oneself alive when all is lost. As for whether Tom Hanks' character "does not learn anything" -- BULL. He learns that in the face of everything else, one must keep on keeping on... never give up! Because one never knows what may come one's way, what opportunity or answer may lie around the corner. And the character states this. Therein is a lesson for us TIGHARS. LTM (who likes movies) and 73 Mike E. (who also is a writer, screenwriter, and writing teacher) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:23:47 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Black as GP's rep. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson Yes, there is correspondence on this. Putnam needed a man "on the scene" at Howland, and contacted Black to do this. Normally, he had a variety of "hacks" or newsmen doing this, but because of the Coast Guard ship being the main transportation to Howland, there were restrictions on number of people who could go. While there were newsmen at Howland for the 1st and 2nd attempts, they were folks that GPP apparently couldn't rely upon. There was probably a connection between Bill Miller, GPP's coordinator on the first attempt and also former head of Howland/Baker/Jarvis Island colonization scheme, and Dick Black, present head of colonization. Miller probably told GPP that this would be an easy job for Black to do, he was a good man, etc etc. Putnam wrote/cabled Black to enlist his help. Remember, on the second attempt, Black was coordinating radiomessages until Thompson took over after the disappearance. He was acting as Putnam's agent. **************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Randy. I hadn't realized that the realtionship was that formalized. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:35:23 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re W40K - new development MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom Byers The 3105 kc and 6210 kc frequencies (HF) were reserved for aircraft transmissions only. Reception should have been on another frequency 500 kc (?) . Therefore, it is extremely unlikely that amateur radio operators would communicate directly with her. Since the antenna for 500 kc under the plane did not work (lost during takeoff) she could not hear the Attics calling her. The HF antenna on the top of the aircraft was still functional. She may not have been aware that the one antenna was not working. It is my assumption that she was depending on homing in on the 500 kc transmissions from the Itasca. Had her antenna worked she would have found Howland Island and completed her flight. Tom Byers (Springfield, MO) **************************************************************************** From Ric There is a growing body of evidence that HAMs and shortwave listeners heard Earhart on harmonics of her primary frequencies (3105 and 6210). There's still a lot of debate about what antenna was used for what, but the best evidence (in my opinion) suggests that the dorsal vee antenna on top of the airplane was for transmitting only. The belly wire antenna was for receiving only, as was the Bendix loop over the cockpit. The loss of the belly wire at Lae removed the airplane's capability to receive anything unless the loop was selected. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:12:21 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re W40K - new development MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Hue Miller Ric wrote: > Seems to me that you're making a lot of assumptions about the RDF system. Maybe i am jumping ahead, but what i have suggested is nothing that is incompatible with the specs of the RDF-1, as presented in the (Navy) text and schematic. We have the observations - now we need to move around facts, to see which ones fit toward completing the puzzle. Hue Miller **************************************************************************** From Ric Although both Bendix products, one of the few things we do know is that the coupler installed in Earhart's Electra was NOT like the RDF-1 described in the Navy literature. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:14:22 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Trying to track down a novel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Zach Lions It was suggested by the kind folks at tighar.org that someone amongst you may be able to help me with my search to track down a novel. My years ago I read a ridiculous novel concerning a plot by Nazi Germany to clone - or rather reproduce - Hitler by impregnating a woman with his genetic material. The central theme involved the incarceration of Amelia Earhart by the nazis. I have neither the author nor book title and am thus obliged to search through anything connected with Amelia! All that I can add to the plot is that the woman who is carrying the clone is incarcarated on a Scottish island for some of the period of her pregnancy before giving birth to a daughter! The novel concludes with the Mossad having tracked the mother and daughter down with the intention of assassinating the daughter. Have you ever come across such a novel in the course of your intensive research into Amelia? And if so, would you be so kind as to forward me the details. This search has been going on for many years now and it's very frustrating. If you don't recognise the novel, perhaps you could suggest another avenue for my search to continue in. If anyone feels they can, I would be most grateful to hear from them at zachryan65@hotmail.com Thank you for your time, please excuse the intrusion Have enjoyed very much following the discussions on this site. Fascinating stuff! Zach Lyons ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:22:04 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Black as GP's rep. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy My thought on learning that Putnam had a "man on the scene" is that this could open up a whole new avenue of inquiry. I would suppose that Black reported back to Putnam about what he had observed on the morning of the disappearance, since that appears to have been his purpose for being there in the first place. Perhaps this is at the root of Putnam's insistence that Earhart landed in the Phoenix isles. Randy, do you know of a way we could see if Black made a written report, notes, etc.? If he has any surviving relatives, perhaps these could be contacted to see if they have any documents or recollections of what Black may have told Putnam. Ric, have we gotten any word back from the Putnam descendants who are members of TIGHAR on our earlier inquiries? --Chris Kennedy ****************************************************************************Fr om Ric I'm not aware of any report Black made to Putnam but he did write a brief report for the Dept. of the Interior which basically concurs with Thompson's conclusion that the plane crashed at sea. Putnam's descendants have responded to my query and are not aware of any story about anything important being found in a suitcase or briefcase in a closet following Earhart's disappearance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:49:20 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Black as GP's rep. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson Black's personal records are now at the Naval Historical Center, being cataloged by someone on the forum, IIRC. I've not had a chance to see them. Black's relationship to Putnam appears to be strictly one of providing logistical support. For example, Putnam needed gas to be placed on Howland Island, and needed someone to ensure it got there. He also needed someone onboard the Itasca to ensure that weather reports were provided to AE via Tutuilla Naval Radio Station and the Fleet Air Base, Pearl Harbor.. It was GPP's way of making sure things got done. From Black's perspective, it was probably no big deal, except for dealing with petty issues from a civilian that really wasn't his true job overseeing the colonization of the islands. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:07:04 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Suitcase in Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney I was talking to a grrl at school who is doing a research paper on Eleanor Roosevelt. As is generally known among feminist scholars, Eleanor Roosevelt was bisexual. She carried on more-or-less openly with several women during the mid 1930's. One of the women was a journalist named Lorena Hitchkock. I don't subscribe to the "Betty" theory of radio communication. However, for those who do, if Amelia Earhart were keeping a diary of what was going on at the White House during her visits and her encounters with various friends of Eleanor Roosevelt, such a diary could be extremely embarrasing to the Roosevelts if someone other than the Putnam family were to find it while searching through AE's possessions after AE's disappearance. Janet Whitney **************************************************************************** From Ric I have to admit Janet, you do come up with some good ones. I've never seen anything about AE keeping a diary. She wrote lots of letters, many of which have been published, and she kept journals during her flights which were always intended for publication. It's hard for me to imagine that someone marooned on a desert island, desperate for help, fearing for their life, would worry about something like you suggest. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:13:03 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Grace McGuire plans to retrace AEs route with 1835 Lockheed Electra 10E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Capt. J.C. Clark Ric Gillespie: Have you noticed recent article originating Old Bridge, NJ, about flyer Grace McGuire's plans to retrace Amelia Earhart's route with a 1935 Lockheed Electra 10E? This appeared in todays New Orleans Times-Picayune. I will mail you copy. Regards, Capt. J. W. Clark, 2205 **************************************************************************** From Ric Yes, I've known Grace McGuire for years. Anyone who thought Linda Finch was strange has a real treat in store. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:16:05 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Sateliite Images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Simon Ellwood Ric wrote: >If we're really talking about ballpark $3,000 >and we can get one meter resolution (especially if we can see down through >the water to a depth of at least 10 meters) it would be money well-spent. >It's not in the budget but I'm sure the TIGHAR membership would rise to the >challenge. We would, of course, put the image up on the TIGHAR website. > Well, if you're starting a fund, I'm in for $100.00 I'd love to see hi-res image of Niku. LTM Simon #2120 *************************************************************************** From Ric Thank you! Let me make sure they can deliver before I start passing the pith helmet. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:21:27 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Canton Photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kenton Spading, 1382CE Ric Wrote: How do we know photos were taken [of Kanton in the 1970's]? If they were, by this time they might be in the National Archive. Do you recall the source on this? ------------------------------ Spading responds: Well...of course I have a source....in fact it is in my library. John Clauss put together a report on the Kanton Enviro mess following the TIGHAR-engine trip. The report includes info that John retrieved from the Air Force (from I believe the archive at Vandenburg (sp?)). Anyway, John's report includes a schedule (an Air Force doc) for the clean up of the island. (I think Kris T. helped John on this??) The schedule includes taking aerial photos to track the progress of the contractor. I have mentioned this before but I suppose the Forum folks have forgotten. At one time Don Jordan was going to try and look for the photos and I think he contacted John C. and possibly Russ M. to see if they could help with the search. It seems to me to be something worth looking for. LTM Kenton Spading (who will be off-line off and on Jan 16 thru Jan 30, 2001) *************************************************************************** From Ric Yes, I have the same report. The Air Force said a lot of things about how they were going to clean up the island and most of it never happened. The place is a disgrace. If aerial photos ever got taken they're probably at Vandenberg where John and Kris found the paperwork. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:22:15 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Black as GP's rep. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From R. Gross As to any surviving relatives of Adm. Richard Black an article appeared in the Washington Post, August 12, 1992, Pg. D04, concerning his death. The article probably named surviving children, if any. His wife, Aziza, died in 1992. Both are buried at Arlington Cemetery. REG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:53:17 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re W40K - new development MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Hue Miller > From Ric > > Although both Bendix products, one of the few things we do know is that the > coupler installed in Earhart's Electra was NOT like the RDF-1 described in > the Navy literature. Depends how you define "is". The circuitry (amplifier stages and basic functioning, including switch functions) certainly was. Do i need to expand on this? As is see it, the only question is the actual frequency range. IF Betty heard W4OK (or even WOJ) we still need to work on how AE, who presumably transmitted that callsign, received a signal with that callsign in the first place. Or do I have this scene not right? We think that AE's reaching FL in the daylight had to be in the harmonic range 12-18 MHz, is this agreed? This frequency range also applies for the reverse path, to the South Pacific from FL at the same time. IF AE's main receive antenna was gone, the only way she could have heard anything on frequencies higher than the loop range would be via the sense antenna operating by itself, is this correct? (In the "Direction" mode, the loop antenna adds two sources, the loop and the sense). That would mean the sense antenna had to uptop. Lots of pieces to the puzzle that don't fit well, and too many missing. I am fishing for inputs on this. Hue Miller *************************************************************************** From Ric Bob Brandenburg is very close to finishing his report on whether, and how, Betty may have heard Earhart. When that is finished we'll put it up on the website and that can be our starting place for trying to determine how likely, or unlikely, it was that there was some exchange between Carroll (W40K) and Earhart. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:05:33 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Secret bones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From TL Simpson Ric and Forum, Why did the British in Mr. Gallagher's time want to keep the bone and shoe discovery secret? No member # yet TL Simpson *************************************************************************** From Ric Ascribing motives is always dicey, but we do have the High Commissioner's response to suggestions that the American Consul in Sydney be notified. On October 26, 1940, Sir Harry Luke wrote in the file: "(B)etter I think await the arrival of the remains etc. Thinnest rumours which may in the end prove unfounded are liable to be spread." When the "remains etc." finally did arrive in Fiji the following spring, an examination by Dr. Hoodless resulted in the opinion that the bones were those of a short, stocky male - not Amelia Earhart. By that time there was, in fact, a new American Consul resident in Fiji but he was apparently never informed about the matter. Tom King has recently done some archival rersearch which seems to shed new light on why Sir Harry did not bring the American Consul into his confidence. I'll let him tell you about it himself. Over to you Tom. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:10:57 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Cholera in Kiribati MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Phil Tanner From the Radio Australia web site 11 Jan: Health authorities in Kiribati have issued a cholera warning,following a similar outbreak in the Marshall Islands. The Director of Public Health, Dr Airam Meetai, says the disease usually lasts one year and people must take precautions. He warns people must boil drinking water, avoid eating raw food and wash their hands before eating. Dr Meetai said his Ministry will monitor the arrival of overseas visitors, particularly from the Marshall Islands. Visitors will also be told not to bring with them any fresh food. **************************************************************************** From Ric As now scheduled, Earhart Expedtion team member Van Hunn and I will be visiting Tarawa from March 6 to March 15 to do archival research, collect anecdotes, and coordinate with government officials. We shall endeavor to not contract cholera. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:16:39 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Satellite images MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Ric said: "Let me make sure they can deliver before I start passing the pith helmet." Yeah, especially the part about being able to "see" to a depth of -- what was it? -- 10 meters. Having sensors detect objects under water is old hat, i.e. sonar etc., but being able to detect objects from hundreds of miles away is a whole different league. And I suspect what they may detect are "anomalies" not specific identifiable objects. I'd like to see the science on this stuff before I whip out my checkbook. LTM, who is no Luddite, but "senses" a marketing effort Dennis O. McGee #0149EC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:21:27 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Grace McGuire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Don Jordan, You know. . . there're going to keep this up until we loose another 10E out there! Don ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:29:19 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Suitcase in the Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney After reading "Last Flight" awhile ago, I thought: "She must have kept a diary. I wonder what happened to it after she disappeared?" I was in Borders yesterday and saw the first volume of what will be a multi-volume biography of Eleanor Roosevelt - Volume 1 ends in 1933. According to the biographer, Eleanor wanted to learn to fly but FDR would not allow it. There was also a book with a few hundred notes and letters sent by Eleanor Roosevelt to Lorena Hickok. Lorena Hickok saved over 3000 of Eleanor Roosevelt's letters (and destroyed over 300). They are archived somewhere. AE's mother did not like FDR. It appears her sister didn't either. If I subscribed to the "Betty" theory, the message about the "suitcase in the closet" could be a warning to GPP to retrieve the suitcase before some other family member did. Janet Whitney **************************************************************************** From Ric Your investigative methodology is in the finest Earhart tradition. You decided that she must have kept a diary, then wondered what happened to it, and have now found a possible reference to it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:30:41 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Grace McGuire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag Is this lady serious? Doug Brutlag #2335 *************************************************************************** From Ric Trust me. She's serious. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:47:08 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: W4OK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney f there is to be an analysis of FG Carroll's (W4OK) ham operating habits, have the following sources been consulted? American Radio Relay League (monthly magaine 'QST' has been published for over 85 years and is now available on CD), CQ magazine (ham magazine largely devoted to contests and DX chasing) which has been published for about 45 years, Quarter Century Wireless Association (ham organization for old timers), Old Old Timers Club (another ham organization for old timers), Ham radio clubs in the St. Petersburg area, Ham radio clubs in the Palm Beach area, Ham emergency communications organizations in Florida, Hams who may have attended Mr. Carroll's funeral. I assume Mr. Carroll retained logbooks, photos of ham equipment, and other ham radio records and that TIGHAR contacted his daughter about these records. I'm not a ham, so this is not an extensive list. Janet Whitney *************************************************************************** From Ric You may not be a ham but you are priceless. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:08:41 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Suitcase in the Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski > From Ric > > Your investigative methodology is in the finest Earhart tradition. You > decided that she must have kept a diary, then wondered what happened to > it, and have now found a possible reference to it. As Mark Twain is said to have said, "First, get the facts, then you can distort them at your leisure." The suitcase line is definitely one of the oddities of Betty's transcript. Here come some "ifs" and "thens": -- If the transcript is authentic ... -- If the suitcase reference is an accurate transcription ... -- Then I think that Amelia expected to survive ... -- and I argue that she must have wanted the suitcase checked for some other reason. (If George looks in the suitcase, it will lead him to Niku???) I haven't seen anybody playing any soundex games with "suitcase" as were played with "New York City" (Norwich City). Marty #2359 **************************************************************************** From Ric I agree. Nothing in the notebook smacks of "saying goodbye." Quite the contrary - it's all about struggling to survive. Logically, the reference to the suitcase should in some way be tied to increasing her chances of rescue. Here's a thought: In the Purdue collection is a regular old National Geographic map of the Pacific with pencilled markings noting the latitude and longitude in the central Pacific region and Enderbury Island in the Phoenix Group underlined. It's the only document associated with Earhart that I've ever seen that specifically draws attention to the Phoenix Group. It was obviously not on the flight because it survived to become part of the Purdue collection (duh). If it was left home it could have been with a bunch of other papers in a suitcase or briefcase. Pure speculation, but not as pure as speculation about AE's possible concern about emabarrassing Elanor Roosevelt. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:55:14 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AE and Eleanor Roosevelt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Porter Ric, Wow, Janet has come up with the best conspiracy theory ever. AE had notes about Eleanor's bisexuality, and to keep her quiet, the gov't makes sure she's lost in the Pacific. The other President Roosevelt (Teddy) wouldn't have put up with crap like this. (and probably would've thought Niku a cool place to do a little fishing and bird hunting) LTM, who wonders if a pith helmet is anything like a thunderbox (grin) Dave Porter, 2288 *************************************************************************** FromRic Now THAT'S funny. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:53:36 -0500 Received: from home.ease.lsoft.com (home.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.9]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:53:11 -0500 Received: from home (home.ease.lsoft.com) by home.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.FF685206@home.ease.lsoft.com>; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 0:53:10 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (f219.law11.hotmail.com) by home.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <15.FFB5F77A@home.ease.lsoft.com>; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 0:53:10 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:53:10 -0800 Received: from 24.4.252.130 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:53:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.4.252.130] From: "dave porter" To: Earhartforum@home.ease.lsoft.com Subject: AE and Eleanor Roosevelt Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:53:10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2001 05:53:10.0499 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1AE8B30:01C07C5B] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:59:54 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Secret bones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King <> Thanks, Ric. I've spent a couple of days in the U.S. National Archives this week, looking at the records of the U.S. Consular Office (later Consulate) in Suva, 1940-44. Unfortunately, State Dept. records are organized by subject, not station, so finding the Suva records involves wading through lots and lots of documents on all manner of other places -- some amazing stories there. Anyhow, I have more work to do, but what's come to light so far is that Wainwright Abbott, the U.S. Consul, had no use whatever for Western Pacific High Commissioner and Governor of Fiji Sir Harry Luke, and felt (among many other things) that Sir Harry was biased against the U.S.. This is quite at odds with what others have told us, and I can't begin to say what lies behind it, but if the two didn't get along, it might have discouraged Sir Harry from talking with Abbott about the bones. Of course, Sir Harry had reason to be a bit distant with Americans, given the continuing competition over possession of the Phoenix and Line Islands (to which the U.S. gave up claims only in 1979), and considering some other irritants like Admiral Byrd's removal of parts of the HMS Bounty wreck from Pitcairn Island as souveniers for President Roosevelt. The U.S. yacht Wing-On was also wrecked in Fiji about this time (another remarkable, tragic story), and although the British authorities seem to have handled the matter with a great deal of delicacy and courtesy, there was a good deal of controversy, verging on litigation, between the U.S. State Dept. and the representative of the wreck's sole survivor, which (to the extent it was known to the British authorities) may have discouraged reporting potentially controverial discoveries. Sir Harry was replaced in mid-1942 by Major-General Sir Philip Mitchell, about whom Abbott was quite bullish. Mitchell apparently rather thoroughly reorganized his office as Governor of Fiji; he may well have reorganized the WPHC offices as well. If so, this might have provided a context in which (particularly combined with the confusion of the War) both the bones and records of them could have gone astray. I need to get back to the Archives for at least another day before I'll have a reasonable fix on this, but one thing it tells me is that it would be really, REALLY good to take a hard look at Sir Harry's papers, which are housed at Oxford. LTM Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:02:11 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: WWII question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King This will doubtless seem like a really dumb question to those on the Forum who know all about World War II, but can somebody give me the actual date on which the Japanese took Tarawa? All I can find in the sources I have around here just says it happened shortly after Pearl Harbor. Anybody have details? Yes, there's a reason for my query, which almost certainly has nothing to do with our topic, but does relate to getting a better understanding of what was happening around the time the bones disappeared. Thanks in advance for any help. LTM Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:04:16 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: satellite photo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon I've been thinking about what we could get from the spaceimaging photo. At the very least, it would provide an accurate and current map of Nikumaroro. There are archeological remote sensing discussion groups on the internet. I will try to see if there are any specific signatures for graves or aluminum, particularly underwater aluminum. The heavy vegetation is a problem. The photo of Baker Island shows features that look like foundations of Quonset huts or other long narrow buildings quite well, but Baker does not have trees. We may have a lot to offer them. I think that Niku 4 is a great photo op, and I expect that the Nai'a would show up well at that resolution. Besides that, you have a tropical atoll with an old shipwreck. We can also give them ground truth comparison in a remote area, maybe a target verified by GPS to calibrate latitude and longitude, or a large piece of aluminum on the island or in the lagoon to determine if that can be seen by the satellite. The real prize would be if the photo could suggest a site that turned out to be part of the Electra! There is a NASA site that briefly mentions the space shuttle photos and the search for AE, but the resolution of those photos is too low to be useful. Daniel Postellon TIGHAR#2263 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:09:30 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Suitcase in the Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Interesting thought, Ric. If we can assume, for a moment, that the lat/lon notations and the underlining of Enderbury was done by Earhart or Noonan, do you have any thoughts as to what was special about Enderbury at the time that could've caused Earhart/Nooonan to make the notations/underline it rather than any of the other islands in the group? Do we know who gave the map to the Purdue collection, or how it ended up there? Of course, a counterargument to all this is why Earhart was being so cryptic by referring to suitcases for clues----if she knew where she was why not just say so ("On Enderbury....Gardiner...in Phoenix isles"....whatever). --Chris Kennedy *************************************************************************** From Ric Randy, help me out here. Wasn't Enderbury, along with Canton, claimed by the U.S.? But why underline Enderbury and not Canton, which is a lot bigger? Most of the Purdue collection came from George Putnam. Good point about being cryptic. Even if she wasn't sure what island she was on, why not make some reference to the Phoenix Group? It's a puzzlement. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:54:00 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: WWII answers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Nick Murray Tom, I found the following narrative about one of the missionaries on Tarawa during WW2: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/janer/egan11.html Reading through it, it seems the Japanese landed twice on Tarawa, the first time on December 9, 1941, the second, just before Christmas, 1941. They didn't actually occupy Tarawa until September 3, 1942. I hope this helps! Nick Murray #2356CE **************************************************************************** From Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194: I don't have the book in front of me right now but I recommend you check: "Utmost Savagery: The Three Days of Tarawa" by Alexander. Very scholarly and thorough. I believe you will find your answers therein. 73 Mike E. *************************************************************************** From Phil Tanner The Encyclopedia Britannica site narrows it down very slightly to "the first few days of the war" and before 23 Jan 1942: "On the eastern perimeter of the war zone, the Japanese had bombed Wake Island on December 8, attempted to capture it on December 11, and achieved a landing on December 23, quickly subduing the garrison. Guam had already fallen on December 10. Having also occupied Makin and Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands in the first days of the war, the Japanese successfully attacked Rabaul, the strategic base on New Britain (now part of Papua New Guinea), on Jan. 23, 1942." A site on WWII history at http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/Pacific01.html says rather cryptically Guam surrendered Dec. 11 1st US possession to be occupied opened way for fall of Rabaul Tarawa on Dec. 9 and Makin Dec. 10 in Gilberts Another site on the Pacific War http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/chr/chr41-12.html also says the Japanese landed on Tarawa on 9th December. I imagine "landing" amounted to "taking" that early in the war. ltm Phil 2276 *************************************************************************** From J.W. Clark Tom King: According to my reference books, the Japanese landed on Tarawa and Makin on December 9, 1941. Regards. J.W.CLark ************************************************************************** From Cam warren Att: Tom King - According to the Encyclopedia of World History, Tarawa (and Makin) fell to the Japanese on December 10, 1941. Singapore, the source for the very effective British coast artillery pieces still to be found on Tarawa, were acquired after Singapore fell February 15, 1942 (source: me, who has been to both places). Cam Warren *************************************************************************** From Harry Poole > Tom, > > Here is another reference from Britanica: > > > "Supporting the assault on the Philippines, the Japanese bombed Wake Island > on December 8 and overcame fierce resistance from the tiny U.S. garrison on > December 23. By February 10, Guam and Tarawa in the Gilberts and Rabaul and > Gasmata on New Britain were occupied. Japan was now master of a vast empire > stretching from Manchuria to the East Indies and the border of India deep > into the western Pacific." > > LTM, > Harry Poole, #2300 **************************************************************************** From Tom King All right Harry! Thanks. So Tarawa was occupied by Feb. 10 1942. Now the reason for my question. Among the papers I reviewed earlier this week at the National Archives was document 819.857/150, relating to an alleged incident of cannibalism in a lifeboat from a torpedoed merchantman. No, this wasn't just my gristly archeological side coming out, I looked at it because it featured a lot of our old friends from the WPHC -- Secretary Vaskess, Education Director Holland, and Drs. Steenson and Isaac. But here's the funny thing: the key part of this multi-part document is a memorandum to Vaskess from Holland describing his interviews with the survivor who lodged the allegation, who had washed ashore with other survivors in the lifeboat at Tarawa on January 17th 1942 and been treated by Steenson and Isaac in hospital there. So now I know that Tarawa had not in fact necessarily been occupied by mid-January; THAT's a relief. However, Holland's memo is headed: "Education Department, Tarawa, 25th February, 1942." Unless I've stumbled into a time warp, I can only assume that the G&EI Education Department was still functioning as such in exile in Fiji, but still ascribing itself to Tarawa, at least a couple of weeks after Tarawa itself fell to the Japanese. Or does somebody have a better interpretation? If this seems a bit distant from the Earhart quest, let me just note that it does seem to indicate that Steenson and Isaac were on Tarawa in mid-January 1942, and that could turn out to be of some relevance. LTM (who doesn't countenance cannibalism or time shifts) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:54:54 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Suitcase in the Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Another conspiracy theory: "suitcase" was Eleanor Roosevelt's code name. AE wanted GP to be sure that she remained "in the closet" Dan Postellon #2263 LTM (who avoided closets) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:03:09 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Suitcase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Muenich When was the National Geographic map published? That would be the earliest date on which the notations could have been made and AE's date of departure closes the period. (From Ric - I couldn't find a date on the map.) Where is Enderbury Island in relation to the Phoenix Group and particularly Niku? (From Ric - see the map on the TIGHAR website at http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Phoenixmap.html) How does it fit with the 157/337 sun line? (From Ric - It doesn't. But remember that the 157/337 sunline only became significant once the actual date of the Lae/Howland flight became known. It might be interesting to see what the sunline would have been for the anticipated date of the Lae/Howland flight.) What is on Enderbury that might have made it attractive as an alternate? (From Ric - Nothing that I can think of.) Was it populated; did it have an area that was suitable for landing; was it closer to Howland? (From Ric - None of the above.) Mike Muenich ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:04:46 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Suitcase in the Closet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson Enderbury and Canton were claimed by the US in September, 1937, well after AE's disappearance. Not much was known in the US about either island at this time; most information derives from Brant's notes in Hawaii. Canton and Endurbury were visited in June, 1937 by the eclipse expedition, and perhaps someone noticed it at that time, who knows? Now I hate to be picky, but I have seen that National Geographic map with Enderbury's name underlined. But, we have no idea when it was underlined! It just might have been done after the disappearance. **************************************************************************** From Ric Very true. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:09:49 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AE as a Linguist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Recently some researchers have reported that AE spoke Japanese fluently.( Hence the possibility of AE communicating with the Japanese.) I see that a Pauline Coleman,a close friend of AE in Boston, reported in 1928 that AE spoke "five languages" fluently, but did not list the languages. AE was then teaching English to foreign students,mostly Chinese and Syrians. (Morrisey,p 73) I see that she took one course in French. Has the 12 year research into AE by Tighar,or anyone on this forum, ever developed any information, that she spoke and read Japanese? Ron Bright **************************************************************************** From Ric Personally, I think that's preposterous. Amelia Earhart never completed any course of higher education. Lots of dabbling and false starts, but no degree. She seems to have had an excellent grasp of English literature but I've never seen any reference to her having an ability in any foreign language. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:20:24 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Go West Young Women MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Ric, I viewed the American Experience documentary made in 1993 for tv and narrated by David McCullough. Sure enough in an interview with Gore Vidal, he recounts his fathers assistance in planning the world flight, and added that when he (not sure if he is talking about Gore or himself) asked Amelia what she considered the most dangerous part of the flight would be, she answered "Africa",spelling out her reasons. Gore than says, well what about the long flight over the Pacific from Lae to Howland, and Amelia answers something like: if your lost, you can't miss an island at that "latitude". It does suggest as of 1993 that Gore believed she would head back on a west latitude if she missed Howland. We have hashed out Gore's Vidal quote before, but for those who want to see it come out of the horse's mouth, check it out of the Library. (Written by Nancy Porter) Also the takeoff film is good and one can see the "puff" in super slow motion. And lots of other anedotal stuff from Gore, such as "personnel problems" meant that FN was drinking again.The production does not go into any of the various theories of what happend after 0843. LTM, Ron Bright **************************************************************************** From Ric I have to take a couple of deep breaths before replying to this: The PBS American Experience documentary about Earhart is the shoddiest piece of work I've ever seen on public television. Rumor, innuendo, and outright falsehood presented as fact to support an agenda. For example: we're told that AE was kicked out of finishing school for walking on a window ledge in her nightgown. Never happened. In fact, AE voluntarily left the Ogontz School to be a nursing aid in Canada. The interview with Gore Vidal is laughable. He was 11 years old in 1937. He says he was with his father and GP in New York when AE phoned from Lae, but GP was in California when AE was in Lae and there was no phone service from New Guinea. Total garbage. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:23:52 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: satellite photo of Kanton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dan Postellon Not as high resolution as the space imaging Ikonos satellite, but not bad. Dan Postellon #2263 *************************************************************************** From Ric Yeah, for some scale you can see the 7,000 East/West runway at the upper left corner of the atoll. It's a big island. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:32:00 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Secret bones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From TL Simpson to Tom King, thanks Mr King,I appricate your effort on the ,Secret bones .I started thinking cover up and I really did'nt want to go there. LTM.....Terry Simpson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:33:36 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Grace McGuire plans to retrace AEs route MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt Does she plan to land at Gardner / Niku? *************************************************************************** From Ric Knowing Grace, she probably plans to run out of fuel and crash at sea. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:35:24 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Cholera in Kiribati MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt This is off topic (sort of) but may interest people who'd like a little bit of insight into what Kiribas(ti) is like today away from Tarawa. These two pages are journals (with pics) of visits to Butaritari island in 1997 & Maiana island in 1998. http://www.collectors.co.nz/kiribati/butari3.html http://www.collectors.co.nz/kiribati/maiana.html They give a (very) little general insight into the people of these islands and are quite interesting. Dave Porter, 2288, wonders if a pith helmet is anything like a thunderbox (grin). Well, apparently "thunderboxes" and toilets of any kind were rare even in 1997 as Jonathan Willis-Richards wrote: "AND even the key to the toilet, a real luxury here as most "do it on the beach" with the tide as flush device." Hmm Cholera???? Th' WOMBAT ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:39:24 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Movie about Niku? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom Byers An internet search on "Nikumaroro Island" brought up a movie starring Sandra Bullock with an Earhart/archeology based plot . Is this a work in progress, or something that never made it to the local cineplex? Tom Byers (Springfield, MO) **************************************************************************** From Ric That's a new one on me. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:55:52 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Sun line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Sherman Ric wrote: << ... But remember that the 157/337 sunline only became significant once the actual date of the Lae/Howland flight became known. It might be interesting to see what the sunline would have been for the anticipated date of the Lae/Howland flight. >> *** If you mean a matter of a week or less, had they not been delayed a couple days here and there, and at Lae, sun rise would have been two minutes of time earlier, and about 25 minutes of azimuth less. Since 157d was a rounding of something between 156-31 anf 157-29, the difference of less than half a degree could have meant 156, no change, or 158. Ergo 10 days would be insignificant. RC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:56:45 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: WWII answers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Thanks to everybody for the information and sources, which I'll follow up. The multiple-landing idea might account for Holland still being on the island in early '42, but seems hard to imagine; why in the world would it have taken the Japanese so long to occupy the place, which was effectively undefended? And Holland's rather leisurely report on the alleged cannibalism seems rather out of character for somebody whose base of operations was being taken over by the enemy. More work to be done, obviously; thanks to all for giving me some directions to pursue. LTM Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:06:39 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Where's the Movie? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Holt > >From Tom Byers > > An internet search on "Nikumaroro Island" brought up a movie starring Sandra > Bullock with an Earhart/archeology based plot . Is this a work in progress, or > something that never made it to the local cineplex? What else do you know about the movie, Tom? What search engine do you use? Alltheweb.com had no hits on the name. I'll have to find a second choice, I guess. Mike **************************************************************************** From Mike E. the Radio Historian #2194: What's the URL for this Sandra Bullock movie? Or, what search engine did you find this on? Does the movie have a title (actual, or working) yet? I checked the IMDB but could not locate it, searching under "Sandra Bullock," and didn't find anything on MSN or Lycos when searching under "Nikumaroro Island." My Screenwriter alter-ego is very intrigued by all this.... LTM (a big Sandra Bullock fan) and 73 Mike E. **************************************************************************** From Marty Moleski Seems to be a fantasy "production." http://members.nbci.com/Sandlapper/Nik/Nikumaroro.htm Marty *************************************************************************** From John Pratt Could that be: http://www.atomicmule.com/news/news3e.html Daily Planet, Sept17, 2000: from Margo Channing's CHIT & CHAT column in Canadian Variety, 9/20/00 Celine Dion, touted as the world's favorite vocalist of the twentieth century, is temporarily leaving the world of song to go before the cameras to play Amelia Earhart in an upcoming film biography to be directed by first time director Sandra Bullock. "I've always wanted to play Amelia," said Celine. "She is the most famous Canadian woman I can think of. There are big plans for this movie and I'm glad to be a part of it. She will have a new plane, a romantic entanglement with a amous world leader and a stunning and daring wardrobe. She will also have a charming monkey sidekick who's thoughts will be audible to the audience!" Songs are being written for the film by the writing duo of Burt Bacharach and James Hetfield of Metallica. It is expected to have a theatrical release before the end of the year to qualify for Academy consideration. Insiders who have seen Celine's rushes feel that she has a lock on a nomination if not the golden statuette itself. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX LTM(!) The writer is not specified. Nominations? On a serious note, TIGHAR success in convincing the public may be measured by how many common returns there are for the search strings "Nikumaroro Island" and "Amelia Earhart". John Pratt 2373 **************************************************************************** From Tom Byers This is what I was referring too.... http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/sandlapper/Nik/Nikumaroro.htm BTW, what if the next expedition does make a definitive discovery of human remains, clearly identifiable aircraft parts etc.? Is there a contingency plan to protect them from exploitation? Tom Byers (Springfield, MO) **************************************************************************** From Ric That will be discussed with Kiribati authorities during our upcoming trip to Tarawa in March. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:08:41 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Grace McGuire plans to retrace AEs route MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Holt > >From Ric > > Knowing Grace, she probably plans to run out of fuel and crash at sea. Well, point out to her that if she wants to be supportive of TIGHAR, she'll crash on the beach at Niku. Authenticity is important in recreations of historical events. I grew up in the American South, and know about such things from personal experience. Perhaps we should just wait for the flight, and see if the Japanese MSDF in the area. LTM (who never quite trusted airplanes) Mike Holt **************************************************************************** From Ric I can assure you that being supportive of TIGHAR is not high on Grace's agenda. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:21:27 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Satellite Photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Pratt I don't know if it has been posted before, but there's a NASA page of Earhart search information: http://develop.larc.nasa.gov/remotesensing/imagery/satellite2.htm LTM John Pratt 2373 **************************************************************************** From Ric I hadn't seen that before. The author, Mike Ruiz, was an active forum participant and TIGHAR member about a year ago. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:52:59 EST Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Recreations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bill Leary > Authenticity is important in recreations of historical events. You just reminded me of something. I was talking about radio signals and trying to emulate the performance of the Titanic's radio. I mentioned the effects of solar activity, and the guy I was talking to told me that, even if you account for that, it's impossible to recreated accurately anything in the electro magnetic spectrum that occurred pre-1945 because the atom bombs modified the atmosphere. He said that, in fact, as more devices were exploded the condition of the atmosphere became increasingly unpredictable. No, I'm not sure how this applies to radio or our particular interest here, but it does seem it would be a factor in any attempt to "try out" seeing how far a signal could be received. I also recall that there's a metals consortium work