========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:24:03 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Daylight Saving Time? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (From Ric Lots of interesting postings and some good information here but the bottom line is that we still don't know whether or not St. Pete was on Daylight Saving Time in 1937.) *************************************************************************** From Gerry Gallagher Ric, Unless St. Pete was one of the cities that elected to keep DST after it was eliminated in 1919 as a law and re-instated in 1942 to accomodate WWII. It would seem by the information obtained on the website below that the city probably did not observe DST in 1937! http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/e.html Gerry Gallagher *************************************************************************** From Randy Jacobson The US in 1937 was not on Daylight savings time, thank goodness! If it was, I'd have had an even worse time putting all the radio messages in chronological order! ************************************************************************** From Ric It seems that some places in the US did use Daylight Saving Time in 1937. *************************************************************************** From Harry Poole Ric: Although it was in effect in a few places before World War II, Daylight Saving Time was not in effect in St. Petersburg, or anywhere in Florida in 1937. LTM Harry, #2300 ***************************************************************************Fro m Ric Source? *************************************************************************** From William Webster-Garman Daylight savings time was instituted in the US as a wartime measure for seven months during 1918 and 1919. It was unpopular with the public, and rescinded as a federal mandate, but continued locally in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, and the cities of New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago (and perhaps a few others). Nationwide daylight savings time was imposed by the federal government again in 1942 (this was actually a default, year-round shift forward by one hour), and was again repealed after the war. In England during the second war, they used something more extreme, called "double summer time", 2 hours forward in summer, 1 hour forward in winter. It is probable that St Petersburg FL was NOT using daylight time during the summer of 1937. william 2243 *************************************************************************** From Vern >We need to establish whether St. Petersburg, Florida was on Daylight Savings >Time in July 1937. Daylight Savings Time in 1937?! I don't believe such a thing had even been thought of. *************************************************************************** From Alan Caldwell Ric, I believe there was NO Daylight Savings Time in the U.S. in 1937. The following information came from a history of DST. ************************** In 1918, in order to conserve resources for the war effort, the U.S. Congress placed the country on Daylight Saving Time for the remainder of WW I. It was observed for seven months in 1918 and 1919. The law, however, proved so unpopular that it was later repealed. When America went to war again, Congress reinstated Daylight Saving Time on February 2, 1942. Time in the U.S. was advanced one hour to save energy. It remained advanced one hour forward year-round until September 30, 1945. .............. From 1945 to 1966, there was no U.S. law about Daylight Saving Time. So, states and localities were free to observe Daylight Saving Time or not. .............. By 1966, some 100 million Americans were observing Daylight Saving Time through their own local laws and customs. Congress decided to step in end the confusion and establish one pattern across the country. The Uniform Time Act of 1966 (15 U.S. Code Section 260a) created Daylight Saving Time to begin on the last Sunday of April and to end on the last Sunday of October. Any area that wanted to be exempt from Daylight Saving Time could do so by passing a local ordinance. The law was amended in 1986 to begin Daylight Saving Time on the first Sunday in April. Alan #2329 ************************************************************************** From Nick Murray Ric, I found a California Energy Commission website that has some history about daylight saving time: http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html It says that daylight savings time was used during both WW1 and WW2 to conserve energy and resources, but wasn't used widely across the country until 1966. It also suggests that researching local newspapers during April or October for reminders to change the clocks is the best way to determine if daylight saving time was in use. LTM, Nick Murray (#2356CE) ***************************************************************************Fro m Vern I said... >Daylight Savings Time in 1937?! I don't believe such a thing had even >been thought of. Shows how much I know!! Daylight Saving Time was first observed in the U.S. during World War I, then again during World War II. In between, individual states did their own thing. In general, there is a tendency for the more southern states and countries near the equator to stay with Standard Time. (World Almanac) I'll guess that Florida was on Standard Time in 1937. We need to hear from Florida and I expect we already have. My problem was that I came on the scene between the wars. I certainly have no memory of messing around with the clocks twice a year until World War II. So, I know just a little more than I did last night! LTM Who says any day you learn something is well spent day. *************************************************************************** From Jon Watson Hi Ric, There's a brief history of daylight savings time at the address below - according to the article, the nutshell version is: No Daylight savings time in 1937. 1784 - First Suggested by Benjamin Franklin. 1883 - Time zones created by the railroads to standardize their schedules 1918 - Daylight Savings Time or Summer Time was first officially implemented during World War One as a fuel Conservation method. 1919 - Daylight savings Time is repealed. From Feb. 9, 1942, to Sept. 30, 1945 (World War Two) clocks were kept an hour advanced in the United States as well as many other countries to conserve fuel. 1966 - The American law by which we turn our clock forward in the spring and back in the fall is known as the Uniform Time Act of 1966. Daylight Savings Time began on the last Sunday in April and ended on the last Sunday in October. The above information was obtained from: http://www.computingcorner.com/holidays/savingstime/daylight.htm ltm jon *************************************************************************** From Warren Lambing Ric. $85 is a little steep for my blood, that is the minimum, but I suspect this place can answer if St. Petersburg was on Daylight savings time in July 1937 http://www.sptimes.com/Services/info/default.html I have sent email to there free service hoping they will perhaps give me some source for free (not likely, as far as getting it for free, but always worth trying first). I will let you know if I get a reply. Hope you good success as far as getting an answer from the list. Regards. Warren *************************************************************************** From Ric Answers are in abundance. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:38:11 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Merry-go-round, off topic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric Here's a bit of trivia that's just too good not to share. Some of the songs in Betty's notebook (such as "They Can't Take That Away From Me") will be familar to most people while others have faded into obscurity, but there's one song there that virtually everybody knows even though you may not realize that you know it. An instrumental rendering of "The Merry-Go-Rond Broke Down" was adopted by Warner Bros. as one of the credits themes for their Looney Toons series of cartoons. You've heard it a million times but you've probably never known the words, or even that the tune HAD words, until now: *********************************** Oh, the Merry-Go-Round broke down And we went round and round Each time t'would miss, we'd steal a kiss And the Merry-Go-Round went "Um-pah-pah, um-pah-pah Um-pah! Um-pah! Um-pah-pah-pah!' Oh, the Merry-Go-Round broke down And it made the darndest sound, The lights went low, we both said "Oh!" And the Merry-Go-Round went "Um-pah-pah, um-pah-pah Um-pah! Um-pah! Um-pah-pah-pah!' Oh what fun - a wonderful time Finding love for only a dime. Oh, the Merry-Go-Round broke down But you don't see me frown Things turned out fine and now she's mine - Cause the the Merry-Go-Round went "Um-pah-pah, um-pah-pah Um-pah! Um-pah! Um-pah-pah-pah!" Oh, the Merry-Go-Round broke down. ******************************************************* Thanks to William Webster-Garman for making it possible for the Earhart Forum to once more enrich our lives. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:39:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Dating the films and songs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Gerry Gallagher Following web page lists at least 3 of the films listed http://www.filmsite.org/1937.html At least 5 of the songs appear on the Hit Parade Winners site below: http://nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Gerry Gallagher *************************************************************************** From Andy Black Legion - Humphrey Bogart - 1936 God's Country and the Woman - Beverly Roberts - 1936 Elephant Boy - Sabu Movie & Book - 1937 Swing High, Swing Low - Carol Lombard & Fred MacMurray - 1937 The Great O'Malley - Pat O'Brian - 1937 Maytime - Jeannette McDonald - 1937 A Day At The Races - Maureen O'Sullivan - 1937 A Woman of Glamour - Kent Taylor Movie "Woman of Glamour" released 1937, however, Kent Taylor not in cast/credits. That covers the movie end. Music will take a bit more work, as we don't seem to have the artists associated with the pieces. LTM (Who enjoyed "A Day At The Races" much more than "Flight For Freedom"), Andy ************************************************************************** From Gerry Gallagher Ric, Website below has listing for 7 of the 8 movies listed on pg23 of the notebook. 5 are 1937 releases and 2 are 1936 releases. So all fall within the timeframe (nothing later than claimed). One is not listed A WORLD OF GLAMOUR .. Kent Taylor. Will see if I can find that elsewhere. http://www.hollywood.com/maltin/b/blacklegion-1936.htm Gerry Gallagher *************************************************************************** From Kerry Tiller Ric, I'm sure there is an old movie buff on the forum who can date the flix. Taking a cursory look at what there is of my music library with me here in Japan (unfortunately most of it is in the States) I found a couple of the songs. "They Can't Take That Away from Me" is a Gershwin tune, copyrighted in 1937. (Copyright by Gershwin.) "Johnny One-Note" is a Rodgers and Hart song copyrighted by Chappell in 1937. So far, so good. Ric, could you do me favor and print some of the lyrics Beatty wrote down for "Carelessly"? (a first line will do) I want to make sure it is NOT a song called "Careless" by Quadling, Howard and Jurgens which was copyrighted by Bourne in 1939. In the meantime I'll go surfing in cyber space for the other songs. It would be a real plus if we could get the Hit Parade rankings for the first week of July, 1937. LTM (who is a soprano) Kerry Tiller #2350 *************************************************************************** From Ric "Carelessly you gave me your heart and carelessly I broke it, swwetheart." **************************************************************************FFro m Bob Brandenburg Ric: A quick web search shows that the film "Black Legion" was made in 1936 and released in 1937. The songs listed on page 31 of Betty's notebook, with the exception of "Where Are You" were Hit Parade top-three winners for the year 1937. "Where Are You" may not have made the final top-three category. I'm checking now to see if I can pin anything down to a month. Bob *************************************************************************** From Kerry Tiller An update to my last post: Using Amazon.com's Music Search, I found 1937 release dates for six more of the songs on Betty's list. (I won't take up bandwidth with the details. If anybody really cares who recorded the songs in 1937, E-mail me.) Now I'm trying to find a list of hits specifically for the first week in July, 1937. LTM Kerry Tiller #2350 tiller@surfline.ne.jp *************************************************************************** From Ross Devitt Ric, Below is some preliminary stuff I looked at. Obviously the films released in 1937 need to be dated. I may be able to get precise info from http://afi.chadwyck.com/ But I don't have a membership. Free trial is available to any organization though, so TIGHAR might like to apply. If we find a 1937 film released after July 1937 in the pages, then the diary can be questioned seriously. So far everything I have seems to be late 1936 / early 1937. Regards, RossD BLACK LEGION Radio Broadcast: - Feb 1937 http://www.allthingsbogart.com/radiodays.htm Movie 1936 release.. http://www.mrshowbiz.go.com/reviews/moviereviews/movies/BlackLegion_1936.html http://www.jpc-film.de/2234203.htm http://www.productdetailsandprices.com/summary/B00003XAMX God's Counttry and the woman - likewise, 1936 release. (No mention of radio) Elephant Boy - released in 1937 - needs dating.. http://www.icast.com/movies/1,4003,1042-33130,00.html Swing High, Swing Low - released in 1937 - needs dating Ric, Does the following match anything on Betty's notes for "There's a Lull in my life" ? I'm writing this as I listen to it much as Betty would have done. (1937 - Teddy Wilson and his Orchestra) Female vocalist. Oh, Oh, There's a lull in my life It's just a void, an empty space When you are not in my embrace Oh, There's a lull in my life The moment that you go away There is no night, there is no day The clock stops ticking The world stops turning Everything stops but... Ross Devitt I'm attaching the real media file, but incase you can't receive it here's the URL: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/redirect/leaf=pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album .html/itemid=356208/from=sr-2114280-1 You'll have to join rthe URL to make it work.. Carelessly Teddy Wilson, 1936/37 Appears to be Teddy Wilson Orchestra and Billie on vocals. Billie Holiday 1934-37 How carelessly You gave me your heart And carelessly I broke it sweetheart I'm obviously finding listening to all this 30's Jazz hard to take.. It Looks Like rain: Lionel ferbos with Lars Edegra (June 11 1936) It looks, like rain In cherry blossom lane The sunshine of your smile's no longer there It looks, like rain In cherry blossom lane Your golden voice no longer fills the air The rippling ??? the old mill stream... (Fletcher Henderson's is nothing like this and no mention of cherry blossom lane - so this is probably it) *************************************************************************** From Ric Those lyrics match Betty's notes. *************************************************************************** From Nick Murray Ric, I have checked some websites for the film and song titles, and I have the following results: Movies: Black Legion - Humphrey Bogart released 30 December 1936 God's Country and the Woman - Beverly Roberts released 10 January 1937 Elephant Boy - Sabu released 9 April 1937 (in the UK) Swing High, Swing Low - Carol Lombard & Fred MacMurray released 15 March 1937 The Great O'Malley - Pat O'Brian released 1937 Maytime - Jeannette McDonald released 26 March 1937 A Day At The Races - Maureen O'Sullivan released 11 June 1937 A Woman of Glamour - Kent Taylor there was no film by this title in the database I checked, but there is a film from 1937 starring Kent Taylor called "When Love Is Young" which may be the one that Betty saw Songs (I am noting artist, ranking during 1937, and if lyrics are posted): page 29 It Looks Like Rain (on Cherry Blossom Lane) (lyrics written down) Guy Lombardo - Number 1 - lyrics page 31 (numbers may refer to Hit Parade ranking?) 9. Love Bug Will Bite You Jimmy Dorsey - Number 6 - lyrics, Guy Lombardo - Number 10, Pinky Tomlin - Number 9 2. Carelessly Teddy Wilson featuring Billie Holiday - Number 1 - lyrics 7. Where are you Mildred Bailey - Number 5 6. Sweet Laylone Sweet Leilani - Bing Crosby - Number 1 - lyrics 5. There's a lull in my life Teddy Wilson - Number 2 - lyrics 3. Never in a million years Mildred Bailey - Number 8, Bing Crosby with Jimmy Dorsey - Number 2, Glen Gray - Number 7 (Then written below) Merru-go-round broke down The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down, Eddy Duchin - Number 2 - lyrics, Shep Fields - Number 1 - lyrics, Jimmy Lunceford - Number 7 - lyrics, Russ Morgan - Number 1 -lyrics Never in a Million Years Mildred Bailey - Number 8, Bing Crosby with Jimmy Dorsey - Number 2, Glen Gray - Number 7 A sail boat in the Moonlight Billie Holiday - Number 10, Guy Lombardo - Number 1 - lyrics, Dick Robertson - Number 10 page 33 The Love Bug'll Bite You (lyrics written down) Jimmy Dorsey - Number 6 - lyrics, Guy Lombardo - Number 10, Pinky Tomlin - Number 9 page 34 Where Are You (lyrics written down) Mildred Bailey - Number 5 page 35 Carelessly (lyrics written down) Teddy Wilson featuring Billie Holiday - Number 1 - lyrics Just a Quiet Eve not listed page 36 There's a Lull In My Life (lyrics written down) Teddy Wilson - Number 2 - lyrics page 37 A Sail Boat In The Moonlight (lyrics written down) Billie Holiday - Number 10, Guy Lombardo - Number 1 - lyrics, Dick Robertson - Number 10 page 38 They Can't take That Away From Me (lyrics written down) Fred Astaire - Numer 1 - lyrics, Ozzie Nelson - Number 6 page 41 It Looks Like Rain In Cherry (lyrics written down) Shep Fields - Number 6, Guy Lombardo - Number 1 - lyrics page 43 Where Are You? (lyrics written down) Mildred Bailey - Number 5 page 44 Johnny One Note not listed page 46 All God's Children's Got Rythum (sic) (lyrics written down) not listed page 47 Merry-go-round Broke Down (lyrics written down) Eddy Duchin - Number 2 - lyrics, Shep Fields - Number 1 - lyrics, Jimmy Lunceford - Number 7 - lyrics, Russ Morgan - Number 1 -lyrics page 48 You Can't Run Away From Love Tonite (lyrics written down) not listed The movie information was found on The International Movie Database site: http://www.imdb.com/ The songs were found on the Lyrics World Top 40 Hits of 1930-1999 site: http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/main_index/index.html LTM, Nick Murray (#2356CE) *************************************************************************** Ric: Please disregard any postings from me prior to this one. My system went down and I think an incomplete message may have gone out. This one is complete, albeit very long. I have found the following information concerning the films and songs listed in Betty's notebook. I have followed the format of your posting and have detailed the info below each entry, with associated url's from which the data was obtained. Hope this helps. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- page 23 Black Legion - Humphrey Bogart Released-December 1936----USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0027367 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0027367 http://www.paweekly.com/PAW/morgue/cover/1997_Nov_21.ARTSIDE2.html Nominated for Academy Award-1937--Best original story ----------------------------------------------------------- God's Country and the Woman - Beverly Roberts Released-January 10,1937----USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0028941 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0028941 ----------------------------------------------------------- Elephant Boy - Sabu Released: UK--April 9,1937 Denmark April 26,1937 Finland May 9,1937 Sweden July 19,1943 Could not find a release date for the USA. Filmed in the UK. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0028827 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0028827 Venice Film Festival 1937--Won for Best Director; Nominated for Mussolini Cup. --------------------------------------------------------- Swing High, Swing Low - Carol Lombard & Fred MacMurray Released: March 15, 1937----USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029626 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029626 ----------------------------------------------------------- The Great O'Malley - Pat O'Brian Released in Finland July 18, 1937 US distributor-Warner Bros. Could not find USA release date http://us.imdb.com/Title?0028955 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0028955 ----------------------------------------------------------- Maytime - Jeannette McDonald released- March 26,1937----USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029222 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029222 ----------------------------------------------------------- A Day At The Races - Maureen O'Sullivan Released - June 11, 1937----USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0028772 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0028772 ----------------------------------------------------------- A Woman of Glamour - Kent Taylor *** Probably incorrect title*** A movie with the following title was released in 1937 (Exact release date not found.): Women of Glamour -- released by Columbia Pictures http://www.icast.com/movies/1,4003,1040-122170,00.html http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029794 No Kent Taylor was listed in the credits. A check of the performance credits for Kent Taylor shows no such title. http://us.imdb.com/Name?Taylor,+Kent ----------------------------------------------------------- page 29 It Looks Like Rain (on Cherry Blossom Lane) (lyrics written down) Correct Title is--"It Looks Like Rain IN Cherry Blossom Lane" 1937 Hit Parade Winners: IT LOOKS LIKE RAIN IN CHERRY BLOSSOM LANE (13) Lyrics: Edgar Leslie; Music: Joseph A. Burke http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html It Looks Like Rain In Cherry Blossom Lane--- Guy Lombardo (Lebert Lombardo) http://www.billboard.com/atoz/chart30s.asp 4/14/37 Swing & Sway with Sammy Kaye-IT LOOKS LIKE RAIN IN CHERRY BLOSSOM LANE http://www.hensteeth.com/harmony.html Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits) (week of) 7/03/37: "It Looks Like Rain in Cherry Blossom Lane," Lombardo, Guy http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm Top 10 Hits of 1937: It Looks Like Rain In Cherry Blossom Lane - Guy Lombardo (#1) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html ----------------------------------------------------------- page 31 (numbers may refer to Hit Parade ranking?) 9. Love Bug Will Bite You (exact release date could not be found) From the movie: "Thanks for Listening"- (1937)---(exact release date of movie could not be found) http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029649 http://www.jabw.demon.co.uk/adbtz.htm Top 10 Hits of 1937: THE LOVE BUG WILL BITE YOU (09) Pinky Tomlin http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html 1937 Hit Parade winners: http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ 2. Carelessly 1937 Hit Parade Winners: CARELESSLY (12) Norman Ellis; Nick A. Kenny; Chas. F. Kenny http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Top 10 Hits of 1937: Carelessly - Teddy Wilson featuring Billie Holiday (#1) http://www.summer.com.br/pfilho/html/top40/1937.html Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits) (week of): 5/15/37 "Carelessly," Wilson, Teddy, featuring Billie Holiday http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- 7. Where are you From the movie--Top of the Town--Released-April 18, 1937 http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029680 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029680 "Where Are You"by Jimmy McHugh and Harold Adamson Sung by Gertude Niessen http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029680 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. Sweet Laylone (Appears to be incorrect spelling of title) The following was found: 1937 Hit Parade Winners: SWEET LEILANI (12) Harry Owens http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Introduced by Bing Crosby in Paramount film: Waikiki Wedding ---Released March 23, 1937---USA http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029742 http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029742 http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029742 Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits) (week of):4/17/37 "Sweet Leilani," Crosby, Bing http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm Top 10 Hits of 1937: Sweet Leilani - Bing Crosby (#1) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html http://www.billboard.com/atoz/chart30s.asp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. There's a lull in my life 1937 Hit Parade Winners: THERE'S A LULL IN MY LIFE (09) Lyrics: Mack Gordon; Music: Harry Revel http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Introduced by Alice Faye in 20th Century Fox film: Wake Up And Live -Released August 23, 1937 --USA http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029744 http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029744 Top 10 Hits of 1937: There's A Lull In My Life - George Hall (#5) There's A Lull In My Life - Teddy Wilson (#2) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Never in a million years Hit Parade Winners of 1937: NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS (10) Lyrics: Mack Gordon; Music: Harry Revel http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Buddy Clark's voice was dubbed for Jack Haley in 20th Century Fox film: Wake Up And Live. -released August 23, 1937--USA http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?002974 http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029744 Top 10 Hits of 1937: Never In A Million Years - Mildred Bailey (#8) Never In A Million Years - Bing Crosby with Jimmy Dorsey (#2) Never In A Million Years - Glen Gray (#7) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html Ozzie Nelson and His Orchestra 1937 Never in a Million Years http://www.parabrisas.com/msl_nelsono1.html ---------------------------------------------------------- (Then written below) Merru-go-round broke down Spelling error---correct title is--"The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" 1937 Hit Parade Winners: THE MERRY-GO-ROUND BROKE DOWN (10) Cliff Friend and Dave Franklin http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits) (week of): 7/03/37 "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down," Morgan, Russ (week of): 7/17/37 "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down," Fields, Shep http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm Top 10 Hits of 1937: The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down - Eddy Duchin (#2) The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down - Shep Fields (#1) The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down - Jimmy Lunceford (#7) The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down - Russ Morgan (#1) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Never in a Million Years --(see prior entry) A sail boat in the Moonlight 1937 Hit Parade Winners: A SAILBOAT IN THE MOONLIGHT (14) John Jacob Loeb and Carmen Lombardo http://www.nfo.net/.HITS/1937.html Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits) (week of): 8/07/37 "A Sailboat in the Moonlight," Guy Lombardo http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm Top 10 Hits of 1937: A Sailboat In the Moonlight - Billie Holiday (#10) A Sailboat In the Moonlight - Guy Lombardo (#1) A Sailboat In the Moonlight - Dick Robertson (#10) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html ------------------------------------------------------------ page 33 The Love Bug'll Bite You -------------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) page 34 Where Are You ------------------------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) page 35 Carelessly --------------------------------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Just a Quiet Eve ***(Probably titled----"Just a Quiet Evening")*** The following information found for that title: JUST A QUIET EVENING Sung by Ross Alexander and Danced with Ruby Keeler from the movie: Ready,Willing and Able--1937-release date not known http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029467 http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029467 Nominated for Academy Award(1938) --Best Dance Direction ---------------------------------------------------------------------- page 36 There's a Lull In My Life--------------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) page 37 A Sail Boat In The Moonlight -------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) --------------------------------------------------------------------- page 38 They Can't take That Away From Me (lyrics written down) They can't take that away from me--George&Ira Gershwin From the movie: Shall We Dance --released May 7,1937-USA http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029546 http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029546 http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029546 Top 10 Hits of 1937: They Can't Take That Away From Me - Fred Astaire (#1) They Can't Take That Away From Me - Ozzie Nelson (#6) http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/top40/1937.html Selected Top Songs of the Era (source: "Billboard's #1 Hits (week of): 5/01/37 "They Can't Take That Away From Me," Astaire, Fred http://members.nbci.com/dwightladams/19301939.htm Academy Award for song : http://www.oscars.org/awards_db/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- page 41 It Looks Like Rain In Cherry ----see prior entry (lyrics written down) page 43 Where Are You? ------------------see prior entry (lyrics written down) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- page 44 Johnny One Note Johnny One Note-- from Rodgers and Hart's BABES IN ARMS. It was the hit of the season when it opened in 1937, running nearly 300 performances, but essentially vanished thereafter. http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/4109/babes.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ page 46 All God's Children's Got Rythum (sic) (lyrics written down) "All God's Children Got Rhythm" by Bronislaw Kaper and Walter Jurmann and performed by Ivie Anderson, Harpo Marx, and the Crinoline Choir http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0028772 ***From the movie "A Day at the Races"***--See prior entry August 30, 1937: Judy (Garland)Signs with Decca Judy's long-term contract with Decca went into effect on this date. The same day, she recorded "Everybody Sing" (from Broadway Melody of 1938) and "All God's Children Got Rhythm" (from MGM's A Day at the Races. Judy stayed with Decca for a decade until MGM began issuing its own records in 1947). http://www.zianet.com/jjohnson/chrono1.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- page 47 Merry-go-round Broke Down -------see prior entry (lyrics written down) ------------------------------------------------------------- page 48 You Can't Run Away From Love Tonite (lyrics written down) You Can't Run Away From Love Tonight -Duke Ellington--1937 http://www.jpc-music.com/9106661.htm From the Warner Brothers picture: "The Singing Marine"--released June 30,1937-USA http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0029571 http://us.imdb.com/Soundtracks?0029571 http://us.imdb.com/Title?0029571 http://www.harrywarren.org/y.htm#YouCantRunAwayFromLoveTonight http://www.harrywarren.org/y.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- LTM (who Loves The Music,Loves The Movies, but really,really, Loves The Mambo), Bill Conover *************************************************************************** From Ric You guys are AWESOME. I've summarized the findings in a separate posting called "Films & songs summary." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:54:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Films & songs summary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric Many thanks to all who contributed to the dating of films and songs in Betty's notebook. All the submissions are posted separately under "Dating the films and songs." Here's a summary of the results. Note that songs were often released prior to the film in which they were featured. page 23 Black Legion - Humphrey Bogart - released 30 December 1936 God's Country and the Woman - Beverly Roberts - released 10 January 1937 Elephant Boy - Sabu - a British film released 9 April 1937 in the UK Swing High, Swing Low - Carol Lombard & Fred MacMurray -released 15 March 1937 The Great O'Malley - Pat O'Brian - U.S. release date is unknown. Released in Finland 18 July 1937 so U.S. date is probably several months earlier. Maytime - Jeannette McDonald - released 26 March 1937 A Day At The Races - Maureen O'Sullivan - released 11 June 1937 A Woman of Glamour - Kent Taylor - 1937 (Kent Taylor not in credits. William Webster-Garman says, "This English actor existed, died in the 80s, and is buried nearby in Westwood but I can't find any trace of this film." Nick Murray says, "There is a film from 1937 starring Kent Taylor called "When Love Is Young" which may be the one that Betty saw.") page 29 It Looks Like Rain (on Cherry Blossom Lane) - should be "in Cherry Blossom Lane." Lyrics: Edgar Leslie; Music: Joseph A. Burke First recorded June 11 1936 apparently by Lionel Ferbos with Lars Edegra Recorded April 14, 1937 by Swing & Sway with Sammy Kaye Perhaps significantly, Billboard lists the song as the Number 1 Hit for the week of July 3, 1937 as recodred by Guy Lombardo. Among First Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 page 31 (numbers may refer to Hit Parade ranking?) 9. Love Bug Will Bite You Pinky Tomlin First recorded April 5, 1937 From the movie: "Thanks for Listening"- (1937)---(exact release date of movie could not be found) Among Second Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 2. Carelessly Billie Holliday Norman Ellis; Nick A. Kenny; Chas. F. Kenny First recorded April of 1937 Billboard lists the song as Number 1 for the week of May 15, 1937 Among First Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 7. Where are you Sung by Gertude Niessen Jimmy McHugh and Harold Adamson From the movie--Top of the Town--Released-April 18, 1937 Also recorded by Mildred Bailey 6. Sweet Laylone (LEILANI) Harry Owens Introduced by Bing Crosby in Paramount film: Waikiki Wedding released March 23, 1937 Recorded by Crosby for film Feb. 23, 1937 Among Second Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 5. There's a lull in my life Lyrics: Mack Gordon; Music: Harry Revel Introduced by Alice Faye in 20th Century Fox film: Wake Up And Live -Released August 23, 1937 --USA Among Third Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 The song as recorded by at least two other artists: George Hall (#5) Teddy Wilson (#2) 3. Never in a million years Lyrics: Mack Gordon; Music: Harry Revel Buddy Clark's voice was dubbed for Jack Haley in 20th Century Fox film: Wake Up And Live. -released August 23, 1937--USA Among Second Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 Apparently the song was recorded by at least 4 artists: Mildred Bailey (#8) Bing Crosby with Jimmy Dorsey (#2) Glen Gray (#7) Ozzie Nelson and His Orchestra (Then written below) Merry-go-round broke down (correct title The Merry-Go-Rond Broke Down Cliff Friend and Dave Franklin Among Second Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 Billboard lists the song among Number 1 Hits for week of July 3, 1837 and July 17, 1937 Recorded by four artists: Eddy Duchin (#2) Shep Fields (#1) Jimmy Lunceford (#7) Russ Morgan (#1) Never in a Million Years (see above) A sail boat in the Moonlight Guy Lombardo John Jacob Loeb and Carmen Lombardo Among First Place songs on Hit Parade of 1937 Billboard Number 1 for week of August 7, 1937 Recorded by three artists: Billie Holiday (#10) Guy Lombardo (#1) Dick Robertson (#10) page 33 The Love Bug'll Bite You (see above) page 34 Where Are You (see above) page 35 Carelessly (see above) Just a Quiet Eve (correct title Just A Quiet Evening) Johnny Mercer song from Warner Bros. film -- Ready, Willing and Able -- 1937-release date not known Sung by Ross Alexander and Danced with Ruby Keeler This song did not make the top ten in 1937 but did get airplay. page 36 There's a Lull In My Life (see above) page 37 A Sail Boat In The Moonlight (see above) page 38 They Can't take That Away From Me words by Ira Gershwin, music by George Gershwin First recorded March 14, 1937 for film "Shall We Dance" Film released May 7, 1937 - USA Interestingly, Billboard shows this song as a Number 1 Hit for the week of May 1, 1937 which predates the release of the film. Recorded by: Fred Astaire (#1) Ozzie Nelson (#6) (lyrics written down) page 41 It Looks Like Rain In Cherry (see above) page 43 Where Are You? (see above) page 44 Johnny One Note from Rodgers and Hart's Broadway play BABES IN ARMS. It was the hit of the season when it opened in 1937, running nearly 300 performances, but essentially vanished thereafter. page 46 All God's Children's Got Rythum (sic) - correst tiitle "All God's Children Got Rhythm" bBronislaw Kaper and Walter Jurmann Performed by Ivie Anderson, Harpo Marx, and the Crinoline Choir in the movie "A Day at the Races" released 11 June 1937. Later recorded by Juldy Garland on 30 August 1937. page 47 Merry-go-round Broke Down (see above) page 48 You Can't Run Away From Love Tonite Duke Ellington From the Warner Brothers picture: "The Singing Marine"--released June 30,1937-USA LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:19:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Epoxy and Cement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski > From John Clauss > > To Marty Moleski > ... The key to using epoxy is to have clean, abraded surfaces and a > > moderate amount of clamping force. Should be a straight forward process. Yes, as long as you pack your abrasives, cleaners, and clamps when you hop on board the Naia for the five-day cruise to Niku. ;o) (I love abrasives, solvents, clamps, epoxies, cyanoacrylates, white glue, ambroid, etc., and I plan to date some of the new glues next chance I get.) Love to Mother. Tell her I'm sorry for spilling the maroon dope on her new carpet. :o( Marty ************************************************************************** From Richard Lund Ric wrote: "What we want to avoid is any damage to the tomb itself. I'd say just replace the bolts." At last a topic I do know about and can contribute to. I spent 8 years as a roofer and 3 years as a general contractor's apprentice.We specialized in foundations and roofs.We tried many different epoxies and cements to affix met al to concrete.the problem is over time the epoxies will break down or not stick at all and thus leave the plaque on the ground.If I might suggest using bolts and the jb weld(Randy and Bob are quite right about this product.jb weld is essential a pliable material that when hard is as strong as steel,cost about 8-10 dollars cdn..) you will find it will work quite well.Apply the jb weld to the insides of the bolt holes in the plaque but use the bolts to secure it to the tomb.the jb weld will secure the bolts to the plaque making it impossible to unscrew them.I used this combination many times to secure iron railings to brick on stairways,ramps and walkways in high pedestrian traffic areas,were safety was paramount.jb weld dries fairly fast so you'll need to test fit everything first to ensure everything will fit together.wipe off any overflow of the jb weld right away. It will be inconspicuous and tasteful. I know Gerry is right in not wanting to damage the tomb but you may have to drill the holes out again.they should be made one size larger to ensure that the bolts will secure a strong purchase in the concrete.(if the holes are 3/8 in. size make the them 7/16 in.).If the second smaller plaque is to be affixed the you'll need to drill holes for this as well.The holes will still be inconspicuous and subtle and without damaging the tomb.Regardless of the size they will have to be cleaned out as thoroughly as possible to ensure a secure purchase for the bolts.I might also suggest using stainless steel or galvanized bolts to prevent them from rusting away.Using an insert for the bolts in the holes will also help out here.the expansion type works extremely well,when the threads of the bolts screw into the sleeve it pushes barbs on the outside of the sleeve out into the concrete making it impossible to pull them out again.This means that the same size holes could be used but I suggest making them one size larger to ensure a good clean purchase in the concrete. the other advantage to using this combination to affix the plaque is that it will comply with Gerry's request to maintain the tomb much as it was constructed. Well that's my take on how it should be done,I don't claim to be an expert but my own past experiences has taught me that this does work well.I guess the final choice will rest in Ric and Gerry's hands. oops,forgot to mention ....If you do use the expansion sleeves then you do not need to drill the holes any deeper than the currently are.there is no penetration of the inner wall of tomb. LTM Richard Lund ************************************************************************** From Ric I don't know if there even IS an inner wall. The tomb may well be solid. There's nothing in there in any event. The burial in the ground like a conventional grave. The tomb was erected over the grave years later. *************************************************************************** From Tom Robison >>From Paul Chattey >Besides, what reason would they have to pry it off? Why do people knock over tomstones or shoot holes in road signs or spray-paint walls? Some folks have no other mission in life... Where does one buy this J-B Weld? Any hardware, or is it a specialty item? LTM, Tom *************************************************************************** From Tom King Ric wrote: > If we're really concerned about deterring theft we might also consider > putting the disclaimer in English and Tungaru (the language of Kiribati) and > maybe also Tuvaluan or Tokelau. Starts to sound pretty cumbersome. And, I think, sort of beside the point. If we want to deter theft -- and this will be a matter of increasing concern the more people learn about Niku, particularly if we confirm our hypothesis -- then the problem will not just be to deter theft of the plaque, but to deter theft of all kinds of data-rich artifacts and the disturbance of their data-rich contexts. This is a whole lot bigger management problem than that of keeping the plaque in place, but it also presents additional possibilities -- like the distribution of literature and the placement of multi-lingual signs elsewhere on the island. Why didn't we think of consulting stonemasons? Duh. I'll put the question to the National Park Service's National Center for Preservation Technology and Training, which has people who specialize in this kind of thing. TK TK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:04:45 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: 281 message & Betty's notebook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag Ric is correct that FN would need an accurate timepiece/watch to calculate longitude. That being the case, he had one on the trip. From a good noonshot he could calculate both latitude & longitude-latitude from the altitude(Hs) of the sun and longitude from the sun being in its highest position in the sky and then comparing the local time(noon) with GMT and converting the time difference from Greenwich into degrees of longitude. On Betty's notebook, I prefer to wait for the TIGHAR jury's verdict. Unless I woke up in North Korea this morning, one is not guilty until proven innocent. Give her and the notebook a chance to prove themselves. This one needs some serious effort & midnight oil. Maybe legit, maybe not.........I dunno. Godspeed Ric. Doug Brutlag #2335 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:07:14 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Carbon dating the notebook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski > From Ric > > The only thing tougher than figuring out whether or not an alleged > post-loss message was a hoax is trying to figure wheter or not about half > the postings to this forum are meant as a joke. I read your "Betty" post at least five times before I was confident that you meant it to be taken seriously. You'll have to get an emoticon that means, "Seriously, folks, I'm not joking." :-| Marty ************************************************************************** From Ric Yeah, I guess it cuts both ways. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:30:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Movie release dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Evans Katz Please note that the "official" U.S. release date indicates when the movie was released in a theater within a one [?] mile radius of Hollywood. While many motion pictures "premier" in other cities, their release is not considered "official" until it shows in the Hollywood area. (The Hollywood release may be shortly after an out-of-town release.) Sometimes a movie may have a limited release in large cities only and then be distributed in smaller venues later. Alternatively, some movies may have a limited release in test markets and later be released in major markets if they test well. Source: The Internet Movie Data Base David Evans Katz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:45:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Local noon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Ric and Doug Brutlag (and others) said FN could determine his latitude by checking the sun's angle at local high noon. Without a watch how does he determine noon? I know the old put-a-stick-in-the-ground-and-use-it-as-a-sun-dial trick but using that method you won't know it is noon until -- at the minimum -- one minute after noon, which would give you an incorrect answer. So, how do you determine local noon with out a watch and without being at least one minute late? LTM, who REALLY needs maps Dennis O. McGee, #0149EC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:47:55 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Merry-go-round, off topic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, Have you ever thought about getting accredited to award higher education credits for this forum???? How about lower education credits???? ltm jon ************************************************************************** From Ric I figure I'm doing well just not getting arrested for running this forum. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:49:19 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Something new MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Harry Poole Ric: You said: >I do plan to interview Betty on videotape as soon as we're sure there's >nothing obvious in the document that would indicate that it's a hoax. I would also like to offer my services, if there is anything I can do. I live in the Central Florida area, and can check out anything you would like in the St. Petersburg area. I used to live in Largo (near St. Pete) and still know many people there. If you would like me to, I will be glad to offer you help in researching any part of Betty's story and/or join you when you want to set up a videotaping or personal meeting. For what ever it's worth, my radio experience would support the possibility of fading in and out skip signals received in Florida in 1937. LTM Harry #2300, an ex First Class radiotelephone professional *************************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Harry. Betty no longer lives in Florida but there is some research in the St. Pete area that would be useful. I'll email you privately with specifics. *************************************************************************** From Marty Joy Ric, Did you by any chance, ask "Betty" if she recognized AE's voice on the transmissions? If Betty was a movie/famous person/aviation buff, she certainly would have seen various newsreels of AE and would have been familiar with her voice. Of course if she was listening to a commercial radio hoax, they probably would have imitated it. Just some thoughts. Marty Joy 0724C *************************************************************************** From Ric Newsreel clips that included speaking parts by Earhart were not very common and Earhart's voice was not something Betty was familar with. She is, however, adamant that the extreme emotion in the woman's voice was absolutely genuine. ************************************************************************** From Ross Devitt >Another puzzler is why > Earhart gets talkative only >>after<< they're down. Why nothing, zip, > nada, between 8:43 a.m. and touchdown? Skip (as CBers will recall) fades in and out, the same signal can be heard at different places at different times. I assume it does on the frequency Earhart used as well ?? Th' WOMBAT ************************************************************************** From Ric Is that true? Can the same signal be heard at different places at different times? ************************************************************************** From Ross Devitt > >From Ric > > That's right. Betty has no idea what frequency she was listening on. She > was just tuning along the dial and stopped when she heard something > interesting. A practice I'm sure a lot of us that used to listen to short wave radio have done. I spent hours chasing Radio Australia (international broadcasts), America, Europe, BBC London, and various Pacific island stations on an ancient portable transistor radio that I still have, using a simple telescopic antenna at all times of day and night, from all parts of Australia over the years I was travelling. Often short wave from another country was the ONLY viable reception. Th' WOMBAT (just about to dig out the radio and see if it still works) **Followup** It worked. Mackay, Queensland, Tropical Australia, getting very loud signals on some bands Stations fom Europe, fading in and out, but all readable. BBC London coming in well, even over the interference from my hard drives.. So even a low power receiver on a standard telescopic antenna is picking up signals from all over the world. Bearing in mind that in Betty's day there would not be so much "junk" on the airwaves (remember the internet back around 1990?) she would possibly have a good chance of picking up a signal from the Pacific. We used to talk from Melbourne Australia about 30 years ago, to various parts of the U.S. on 27MHz AM CB with a little less (well, a LOT less) power that Earhart's transmitter. Th' WOMBAT (who is now stuck with Spanish voice and whistles and squeals..) *************************************************************************** From Ken Knapp Hue Miller wrote: > If it turned out to be a home radio, i would discount her account from the outset, on technical grounds. I would NOT discount the possibility of Betty having received post loss transmissions on a "wooden" home type receiver. I own 25 shortwave receivers, of various make and vintage, including a "wooden" home type (not to mention having once been in the business of repairing them ). With an adequate receiving antenna and the right atmospheric conditions, you'd be amazed at what it is possible to hear on the air with any one of them. Bottom line is this - I would not doubt her story just because of what she was using for a receiver. Atmospheric conditions, antenna, and band congestion have MUCH more bearing on reception than the receiver itself. ************************************************************************** From Judy Dear Don. 'In all of her radio transmissions, AE never used her name only her call sign'......Well her call sign did not seem very effective during her 'running out of gas -floundering about in massive waters looking for land time' and further, she probably was semi-hysterical and perhaps thought using her name might bring understanding and help faster???? Judy who doesn't fly. *************************************************************************** From Bill Moffet Hi, Ric, As you know I read Randy Jacobson's "Post-Loss Messages" file and also your photocopies of NY Herald Tribune contemporaneous stories. None of them reported AE saying anything like Betty reported, nor was there any report of conversation, etc. with FN. She identified herself as KHAQQ, not by her name. I tend to agree with William Webster-Garman and Herman De Wulf that the on-mic struggle sounds like creative script writing. I suspect she was listening to a short wave harmonic of a local (more or less) broadcast station. To illustrate: a station broadcasting on 1550 kHz (kcs in the "old days") would produce a second harmonic on 3100 kHz - close to 3105. Its fourth harmonic at 6200 kHz might also be heard if the listener were close enough to the transmitter. It'll be interesting to hear the March of Time broadcasts. On the other hand, maybe she did hear something from AE that no one else did - although I think it unlikely. "The 'Radio' Handbook", 1938, by Frank C. Jones and the Technical Staff of "Radio", indicates that a single wire antenna 67 feet long, if fed (connected) 11 feet from its center would work for 40-, 20- and 10-meter operation. Well, 6210 kHz is 48.3 meters, so if the antenna was configured a bit differently - and directionally aligned at a right angle to the transmitter - the receiver might well be able to pick up a "skip" signal on 6210 kHz. Mike E. is far better qualified to comment on this than I. Also one might ask if Betty's father had the expertise to cut and connect the feeder for such frequencies. And why would he do so? She was apparently not interested in Ham radio nor perhaps in listening to distant (foreign) broadcasts, so I suspect the antenna was not tuned at all. While we're at it, somebody might check to see if St. Pete was on Daylight Saving Time in July of '37. If Betty's times, 3:15 - 6:15 PM were EST, then subtracting 6 hours would make it (GMT less 11 hours) 09:15 - 12:15 at Baker. (Howland was Baker plus 0:30 for Navy/USCG time.) It will also be interesting to see if we can figure what day Betty heard the broadcast. LTM (who likes Big Band music) Bill Moffet #2156 *************************************************************************** From Ric I'm puzzled how you can say that none of the other post-loss messages report saying anything like what Betty reported when you don't know what Betty reported. The database of all known post-loss messages, that was to be the ultimate product of the research in which you participated, never got made (no fault of yours, I hasten to add). As a matter of fact, there are some startling similarities between what Betty wrote down and what was later reported by other alleged post-loss message receivers. We really need to take a hard look at the whole post-loss message question. *************************************************************************** From Warren Lambing Hi Ric. My two cents, probably worth less then two cents :-). Also more of a reply to other post. Good to remember for the rest of the list, these are analog dials, to tune the station. As far as the neighbors go, who knows what model receiver they had, not all receivers are equal even back then. I play around with old receivers, have listen to some from that era, mostly I listen to shortwave, and have compare them to newer receivers, some the old sets are pretty good receivers, and comparable to the more middle of the road shortwave radios of today. As far as the Neighbor not picking it up, some old receivers will over load with a log wire antenna, some won't. If the house has poor electrical wiring it will cause an old tube set to pick up the static from the wiring, even on shortwave bands, one house could have poor wiring the other may not. The point being it is hard to compare sets, or even analyze why more people didn't hear the transmission, you have to wonder, how many people would be listening on that frequency, or have receivers that could pick a good signal there. Also you could asked, if it was a hoax broadcast, why didn't more people hear it, assuming that it was hoax being transmitted closer to the States, for that matter how many people would have a crystal in there radio to broadcast on that frequency, if there aren't many transmitters out there to broadcast on that frequencies, you have to consider it limits the amount of people who could broadcast the hoax. I am not saying what Betty heard was AE, but it is interesting to see a log surface of a possible post radio message. Regards. Warren Lambing ************************************************************************** From William Webster-Garman Ric wrote, >>It's interesting to me to see how many people - even with minimal information and without ever seeing the content of the alleged transmissions - have already established a position on this question.<< --------- Actually, Ric, your original and enthusiastic post summarized quite a lot of salient detail (the description itself contains 474 words). It does seem likely to me that a Florida adolescent's transcript of a broadcast alluding to a delirious FN fighting with AE ("The man would alternately struggle with Amelia and try to get the microphone away from her or panic and try to get out of the airplane"), or AE dramatically announcing her presence in an agitated voice without her call letters ("This is Amelia Earhart. This is Amelia Earhart.") is most likely the product of a scriptwriter (or perhaps a creative hoaxter). Obviously, knowing that you have Betty's complete notes, anything I may think about the subject must be heavily qualified. But you shouldn't be surprised, after making such a sensationalistic post with all those juicy details, that forum members have enthusiastically responded with their impressions. Is there something in the notebook that you haven't yet revealed that makes you think it might be a record of an actual Earhart post loss transmission? william 2243 *************************************************************************** From Ric If my posting came across as "sensationalistic" it's only because the events recorded in Betty's notebook are undeniably dramatic. If you think the basic facts I laid out about the nature of the circumstances portrayed by the notes were "juicy", wait until you see the full transcript. It is precisely because the scenes described in the notes are so "sensational" that I'm holding them back until we can make some reasoned judgement about whether they COULD be true, irrespective of their content. *************************************************************************** From Cam Warren Betty's "short-wave" reception: I just knew this would come up! It's highly likely Betty was hearing a second (or higher) harmonic of a powerful nearby standard broadcast station. (As I'm sure was the case with the radio operator in Honolulu and the listener in Montana, et al.) Betty's receiver - It was quite common, during the thirties, for "home" radio receivers to have two or three short-wave bands as an added attraction. My Sears "Silvertone" floor model had such, and (I believe) cost the princely sum of $16.95. Needless to say, it's sensitivity and selectivity left a lot to be desired, and it certainly did NOT have a "CW" switch. Nor did you have the foggiest idea of the precise frequency you'd tuned! Cam Warren *************************************************************************** From Vern Ric, I wonder if 15 year old "Betty" noted where on the dial she hear Earhart? **** I read some more before posting. I guess that's now been answered -- she has no idea. But is there anything in the journal? As with all alleged Earhart transmissions, if it was not heard on 3105 kc or 6210 kc, it was not Earhart. (Poor callibration of receiver dials allowed for, of course) I think the chances of an off-frequency transmitter are virtually zero. Incidently, in my opinion, that console radio was very possibly about as good a receiver as was to be had in that time. A guy who strung up a 60-foot antenna probably had a pretty good home radio receiver. In terms of sensitivity and "image" rejection. The fancy communications receivers were little, if any, better. (For radio folks) "Betty's" radio probably had a tuned RF amplifier ahead of the mixer. Late comments having read todays postings... These home radios certainly didn't have BFOs! The antenna wasn't some kind of array. It was just a wire "perhaps 60 feet long." Why didn't all sorts of people hear the same thing? How many were listening to that frequency at that time? I agree, it's not a question of, could it have been heard (yes it could), but is it real? That's the only appropriate question. LTM for sure! *************************************************************************** > Don Neumann writes: > > Think you've got a phony here, in all of her recorded radio > transmissions AE _never_ used her name, only her call sign. > The response to this is obvious. Her call sign was appropriate for normal flight, but if she is grounded somewhere and desperately wants this to be reported by anyone who hears it, if she just uses the call sign she limits her audience to those who recognize it - when her life depends on it and she has one of the most famous names in the world as an alternative. A case could be made for using both name and call sign - but you wouldn't expect a teenager to note both if she heard the name. LTM Phil 2276 *************************************************************************** Ric, Wasn't Daylight Savings Time a necessity for providing more daylight hours for production of war materials during WWII? Since you are the only one on Forum who has actually read 'Betty's' journal, I'm curious about her actual description of...'the transmissions continued to come in, off & on, for about three hours'..., were the transmissions of an on-going, continuous stream of 'conversation', interrupted by the 'fading in & out' of the signal or did each appear to be a _separate_ message, broadcast at regular (or irregular) intervals? How would a three hour timeframe for such broadcasting fit the amount of fuel 'estimated' that the Electra had left in it's tanks upon landing at Gardner, as opposed to the drain on the battery system required to stay 'on-the-air' for that three hour period? Also, since the broadcasts were originating in the Central Pacific during the hours from 8:30 am - 11:45 am (Central Pacific Time), what effect would the 'skip' factor have upon such broadcasts, during such timeframes, in reaching the West Coast of Florida in the late afternoon? Does the 'notebook' provide any _dates_ for any of the _other_ entries 'Betty' recorded? Does the notebook contain _only_ notes & jottings from the...'summer of 1937'...? Perhaps the...'rush-to-judgements'... you attibute to Forum participants in this case is simply due to the fact that this document bears such a close resemblance to much of the material promoted as 'evidence' by the 'splashed & sank' & the 'captured by the Japanese' folks, whose offerings have been routinely discredited by TIGHAR. I'ts difficult to assess the credibility of such 'evidence' when the original source document is not available for examination & only 'bits & pieces' of the content are being presented for discussion purposes. Maybe TIGHAR should declare a moritorium for postings on this subject until further, probative investigation of the document is completed? Don Neumann ***************************************************************************Fro m Ric Maybe this is the wrong way to handle this but I'm trying to enlist the forum's help in making a preliminary judgement about the possible validity of the notebook, irrespective of its actual content, before we tackle the content itself, which is admittedly very dramatic. PDF images of the entire notebook will go up on the TIGHAR website a soon as we have the basic questions answered. So far we're doing great, with extremely valuable input form many forum members. Any analogy to the shenanigans of the crashed-and-sank or Japanese-capture theorists escapes me. ************************************************************************** From David Evans Katz <> If these are the times that Betty heard AE & FN down (and presuming that the transmission was real), then they couldn't have made Gardner. That is, there would not have been enough time from their last reported transmission to Itasca (within about 100 miles) and an 8:30 a.m. transmission from a Gardner landfall. David Evans Katz *************************************************************************** From Ric We have already determined that Betty's notes can not date from July 2nd. *************************************************************************** From Mike Muenich From the mass of material being submitted to the forum it appears that the chronological offerings contained in the notebook will be verified in the near future. I note that Mr. Gillespie has not told us where the AE entries are in the listing; I presume its a test. I also note that some of the the release dates and corresponding pages would be after the AE event and therefore I presume (hope) that the AE event falls in between. Assuming the chronological order is accurate, I offer the following: 1. I understand this lady to be 78 years old and submitting a record that is approximately 63 years old. AE, except for us excentrics, is not a hot topic. Why would she retain the document if it were a hoax perpetrated in 1937 and she couldn't get anyone, including Goener in the 1960's, to buy it then? Is there any chance that the letter from her to Goener could be found in the Nimitz materials or are they so disorganized as to make location impossible short of reviewing all? 2. She doesn't seem to be "pushing" the document, i.e. hasn't sent it to e-bay, Sothbys, the National Enquirer, etc. As I understand it, a contact from a friend produced the contact from TIGHAR. We called her, she didn't call us; neither is she seeking publicity. She does not seem to fit the profile of a person "perpetrating" a hoax. 3. If the document itself, not the chronology, fits the 1937 time frame, i.e. paper, handwriting, ageing, etc., then it would appear that we have a contemporanious document and if there was a hoax, it would have been perpetrated on her, unless an overactive 15 year old imagination created the insert. What's the point if she wasn't going to report it, (her father did) and unless she wanted the publicity. Refer to #2 above, she might have wanted it then, but now? 4. Three hours is a long hoax. I am familiar with Orson Welles and the "War of the Worlds" broadcast, but such a production would take some considerable time to work up and I seriously doubt that any reputable station would have made such a broadcast at the time of AE's disappearance given her popularity and the concern of the nation over her loss. EXTREMELY poor taste. I concede that it might be on any number of morning or afternoon TV productions today, but I doubt that it would have been broadcast then. If it was broadcast and if it souned so accurate and "real life", there should also have been a deluge of calls to the local authorities, ala "War of the Worlds". 5. That leaves an individual. Again, three hours is a long hoax. The perpetrator ought to have known that any number of authorities might be trying to get direction finders locked on to such a transmission, which could lead to him. If the perpetrator was using common or very simple equipment and local to Florida, it seems that more than one person would have listened and there (again) should have been a deluge of calls to the local authorities, ala "War of the Worlds". What's the point of a hoax if its limited to one person and how would you limit it? If the perpetrator was using sophisticated equipment, it would seem the broadcast would have been wider in scope, more susceptable to interception and tracing by the authorities and potential loss of license or other FCC delights. 6. That also leaves a freak skip of a valid series of transmissions. I eagerly await the radio geru's analysis and the full transcript of the transmission(s) with reference to the page(s) of the notebook, hopefully in the proper chronolgy. *************************************************************************** From Ric Excellent points. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:49:57 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Love Bug date MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Evans Katz In re the song, "Love Bug Will Bite You", it was sung by Ray McKinley and performed by the Jimmy Dorsey Orchestra. I have a recording of it, but, unfortunately, no release date is given. It was probably released in the mid- to late-thirties. I suspect that a 1937 release would be reasonable. It was considered a "novelty" song (along the same lines as the "Hut Sut" song). David Evans Katz ************************************************************************** From Ric As noted in the original posting, the song was first recorded by Pinky Tomlin for the movie "Thanks for Listening" on April 5, 1937. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:53:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: B-bya-B-bya-B-That's all folks! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric That's not all the postings for today (10/2) but's it's all I have time to do and it's more than enough for all of us to digest for one day. More tomorrow. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:51:48 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Daylight time in St. Pete? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Edgard Engelman 1. What is "Daylight Savings Time "? Sorry, for that question. 2. Betty heard a transmission (sporadically) during 3 hours. I guess that even for a sporadic transmission you would drain a lot from the battery. Was this possible without recharging with the generator, meaning that she would have to run the engine (left one?). Does Betty mention anything about hearing an engine runing ? They could have forgotten that detail in a radio dramatization as the show was taking place after landing (or crashing). *************************************************************************** From Ric I trust that your first question has been answered by subsequent postings. Betty has mentioned nothing about hearing an engine running. How much actual transmission time is represented by the fragments that Betty heard over the 3 hour period is not yet clear. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:56:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: St. Petersburg Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Frank Westlake Ric, I don't know why you are asking about daylight-savings time, but if you are examining a reference to a "spring moving time," it may be explained by the article below. This article was printed after 1937 but it was also pre-WWII. --------------------------------------------- [http://members.aol.com/jeff560/am6.html] This article appeared in the St. Petersburg Times on March 29, 1941 Dear Mrs. Jones: Let's be a good sport about one of life's dizzier difficulties you're going to experience today. As on dozens of other Saturdays, you will buzz into the living room, push your radio dial button and whisk back to the kitchen to fluff Saturday night's pie meringue to the dulcet tones of your favorite crooner. But for the sake of all those meringues and custards, Mrs. Jones, let's face it. This morning was spring moving time on the airways. Your push button dial system, if hubby forgot to change it last night, is as useless as yesterday's salad. Because this morning, Mrs. Jones, at exactly 3 a.m., 802 of the nation's 893 standard broadcast stations changed wave lengths. Local stations WTSP, WDAE and WFLA all are affected. This isn't any spring cleaning orgy cooked up in an idle moment by the Federal Communications commission. It will mildly inconvenience thousands of radio set owners. Commission hopefuls beg them to be Polyannas. "Nobody likes moving day," quoth Chairman James Lawrence Fly in an address broadcast last night via NBC. "But the nuisance soon will be over while the benefit - better reception and less interference - will continue to accumulate during the years." --------------------------------------------- I don't know if "spring moving time" for the airways was an annual event that went back as far as 1937. Frank Westlake ************************************************************************** From Ric We're asking about Daylight Saving Time so that we can accurately determine just when Betty heard what she heard and assess the propagation path from the Central Pacific. The article about "spring moving time" is interesting. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:11:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Daylight saving time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty 0724C Ric, According to a Daylight Savings Time history website, DST was initiated by Congress in 1918 but later proved so unpopular it was repealed shortly after the war. It wasn't reinstated until February 2nd 1942. There is nothing specific regarding States, except Arizona doesn't recognize it and one of the Eastern States in certain time zones. It doesn't appear St Pete was on DST in 1937 How many responses did you get to this question? :o) Marty 0724C *************************************************************************** From Ric Lots, and we still don't know for sure. *************************************************************************** From Judith Daylight savings time starts the first Sunday of April and ends the last Sunday in October. According to the 1937 calender (www.timeanddate.com/calendar) April 4 would have been the start of DST if St Petersburg used it. I tried to access the St Petersburg Times archives for April 4, 1937, but they want $75.00. Anyone in the newspaper business? Judith *************************************************************************** From Ric Harry Poole has offered to do on-site research in St. Pete. Maybe he could check this out in person. ************************************************************************** From Warren Lambing Ric Here is the reply from the St. Petersburg Times I only live a 20 hour drive from there Library ( but I forgot to mention in the email that I live in Western NY) Maybe someone on the list lives in or near St. Petersburg?. I did find a web site for the St. Petersburg Library and I have sent them email asking for there help, will send a copy of my request for help. Here is the Library web site. http://st-petersburg-library.org/ Regards. Warren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Answer Desk" To: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Daylight Savings Time > Dear Mr. Lambing, > Your questions got a lot of minds working around our office. We have > not been able to find any information about St. Petersburg (or Florida > for that matter) prior to 1942. > However, we think you may be able to view our microfilm from July 1937 > and determine whether or not the city was on DST by looking at the > times for sunrise and sunset listed in the paper. > Try the main branch of St. Petersburg Public library at 3745 9th Ave. > N. > Thank you for contacting the Times' Answer Desk. > > Suzanne Palmer > Manager > (727) 893-8176 > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Daylight Savings Time > Author: "Warren Lambing" at ~Internet > Date: 10/02/2000 1:00 AM > > > Hello > I don't know if you can answer this, but perhaps you can direct me to > someone who has the answer to this question. I am trying to find out if St. > Petersburg as a city used Daylight saving time in July 1937? Daylight > savings time was not a national standard then (the good old days :-), but > some cities did use daylight savings time then. Was St. Petersburg among > them? Any ideas? Please any suggestions on who I could contact to get an > answer? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > Warren Lambing *************************************************************************** From Ric This is progress. Warren, if you and Harry Poole want to coordinate efforts on this his email address is hhpoole@SPRYNET.COM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:23:45 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 3105 kc Propagation in 1937 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney Last night I heard a Japanese ham (JA3BOA) working U.S. and other Western hemisphere stations for about 2 hours on the 10 meter ham band. Probablity that I would have heard any DX from the Far East on 10 Meters five years ago was near zero. The daytime propagation on 3105 KC in 1937 was terrible to non-existant. Especially with 50 watts AM into a non-directional wire antenna. The daytime propagation on 6210 was OK out to 500 miles or so. There are presently several low power Canadian broadcast stations between 6000 and 6100 kilocycles...running 1000 watts .....hear for yourselves how strong they are during the day. In 1937, 3105 and 6210 were common night / day frequencies used by the airlines and many "general aviation" pilots. So there were many radio transmitters around capable of putting out phony distress signals. Janet Whitney ************************************************************************** From Ric I don't think there's any doubt that hoaxes were possible. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:25:06 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: ...Can't get a null. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Moleski > From Vern > I keep telling you, Amelia, you gotta switch the AVC off if you expect to > get a null on a moderatly strong signal, what with the noise and all! A > strong signal says you're near the Itasca but if you can't see the ship or > the island that isn't much help, is it? How much did recognizing a "null" depend on AE's aural acuity at the time? If I understand what our radio people are saying, a "null" might not mean "no signal at all" but just the low point of signal strength. Ric has already said that there is no evidence that AE ever operated her DF equipment properly from the air on the last flight. Is it possible (apart from all other switch/antenna/tuning problems) that her hearing just wasn't sensitive enough after 20 hours in the air? Or is a "null" a real obvious thing when you find it? Marty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:26:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: B-24 crash site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Don Jordan, Sorry Ric. . . I was only kidding on this suggestion also. I forgot to mention one small detail. . . .most of the good stuff is on the bottom of the one hundred foot deep lake. Not only would you have to be a expert hiker, but also a scuba diver. And, both sports are a little difficult at 11,500 feet. Don J. ************************************************************************** From Ric Fooled again! Man... I am SO gullible. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:32:23 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Monument MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Rick Seapin Hello Ric/Forum: I imagine metal, especially bronze, is still a rare commodity in the Phoenix group. What indigenous person would not take a plaque made of bronze to further his/hers personal gain. I'm certain life is very hard for these souls. So the question is, not what to anchor the plaque with, but change the plaque's composition entirely. I suggest a granite monument. A simple stone chiseled with the words that your desire. Just a suggestion. ************************************************************************** From Ric Metal is indeed a rare commodity in the Phoenix Group. So are people. The people who (rarely) visit Niku don't come in canoes, they come in big modern ships, and their ability to obtain metal is no different from yours or mine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:58:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: When did Betty hear it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell << From Ric Betty's notes span a time period from roughly 3 p.m. to 6:15 p.m. which would be 2000GMT to 2315GMT which, if you use Itasca's local time, makes it between 8:30 a.m. and 11:45 a.m. in the Central Pacific. >> Ric, if Betty's notes were jotted down real time and began 8:30 Central Pacific time wouldn't that have been a bit early for hoaxes to begin? At 8:43a AE was still broadcasting her last known transmission. No one could have known she was lost at 8:30 because AE didn't know that yet. I recognize that Betty may not have heard or written down all of the transmissions she received so if she did not hear or record the 8:43 transmission that fact would not be fatal. I also recognize I'm commenting without seeing the whole transcript AND that Betty's times may not be set in concrete. Alan #2329. *************************************************************************** From Ric We don't know what day Betty heard what she heard, but we do have a couple of clues. We recently discovered that on a page of sketches a few pages before the Earhart notes "31.05" and "KGMB" were jotted down in the margins (each in a different place). I asked Betty if she had any idea what the significance of those notations might be. She replied (I'm paraphrasing): "I don't know what they mean but I do remember that there were times when it was quiet for so long that I thought I had lost her and I went back and worked on some drawings that I wanted to make better. When she came back on I wrote down something on the page with the drawing before I flipped forward to the notes I had been taking before. This could have happened a couple times." The reference to KGMB is very important. At 0630 GMT on July 4th, KGMB radio in Honolulu (a powerful commercial station) broadcast a request for Earhart to reply on 3105 by turning her transmitter on and off in a series of dashes to indicate whether she was on land or in the water. The exercise was repeated at the same time, 0630 GMT, on July 5th. Responses were heard by several stations. The results were inconclusive but seemed to indicate that the plane was on land. Neither of the broadcasts coincided with the time frame of Betty's notes, so it appears that what she heard was not the KGMB broadcasts or Earhart's possible direct replies. However, whether a hoax or not, whatever Betty heard almost has to have been transmitted sometime after the first KGMB broadcast on July 4th. Because Betty's recollections include her father coming home from work in the middle of the transmissions it seems unlikelu that it would have been a holiday (July 4th), so it seems likely that the event occurred on July 5th or later. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:07:26 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Betty and tides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, Based on Betty's times, let's presume for a minute, that the local time period from 0830 to 1145 would be the period of lowest tides. Maybe we can even average that to Low Tide at 10:00 AM. Do we have anything from the Itasca's logs that would help corraborate or refute this as the time for the local low tide? That would go a long way toward helping establish the veracity of her records. I seem to recall that we did have some discussion a while back that it would be difficult or impossible to work backwards to try to establish the tides, but I don't recall if there was ever any documentation. ltm jon *************************************************************************** From Ric There are some fairly specific tidal implications in Betty's notes and we're presently trying to see how they match up with the very limited tidal information we have. (Itasca is no help, by the way.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:12:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Films and Songs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell Ric, of the films, God's Country and the Woman was a 1916 film, I found no reference to "A Woman of Glamour" even searching all of Kent Taylor's known films or just the title. All the rest were 1937 films. Alan #2329 *************************************************************************** From Ric The 1937 "God's Country and the Woman" must have been a remake. It does look like Betty was confused about Kent Taylor being in "A Woman of Glamour". ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:14:10 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Tides and Storms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Dipi Will anyone be able to find out what the weather was like on kanton for the first two weeks or three I am thinking of the big log onthe beach in the vcinity of the MUSICK MONUMEMT THAT was still there in 1942 MAYBE that same storm washed AEs plane off the reef. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:21 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 281 message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Christian D (re discussion about finding latitude and longitude) That gave me an idea I've never seen posted: in a crash landing the chronometer would be more vulnerable to water damage than the sextants. Hence it is credible that the longitude would not be available. Only the latitude. In that respect this msg is credible.... BUT it is still strange that the latitude would be spelled as 280 miles instead of "4 degrees 40 minutes"... Or may be for the sake of shortening the Morse transmission? A possibility, given the Morse skills of AE/FN? Also, if I remember correctly, the simple calculation of a "noon latitude" is more likely to come out as "degrees and minutes", rather than so many minutes; requiring an extra conversion to get to "280 miles"... Unlike when calculating a "fix", when the intercept comes out as "so many miles"... Christian D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:24:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Lost Russian Plane MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern Following the Richard Archbold trail looking for possible reference to that Bendix RA-1 receiver that Donohue claimed was supplied by the U.S. government to both him and Earhart (both were on spy missions), I came across a National Geographic article about a search for a missing russian plane in the arctic. I never did spot a reference to Archbold but his name must have been in there somewhere. This must have been in the mid-1930s. I didn't note the date but continued to wonder about it. Does anyone know how that all turned out? The russians were attempting to fly from Russia over the North Pole to Alaska. Radio contacts indicated that they had made it to the pole, turned a bit to the west and were headed for Alaska. The last contact indicated that they were some distance beyond the pole and gave a location. They were not heard from again. The search expedition thought they should be able to find them but they did not. No airplane found. There was still some hope that they might yet turn up somewhere. Was the plane ever found? Was any of the crew ever found? I think a russian polar flight a short time later did make it to alaska. ************************************************************************** From Ric You're talking about the disappearance of Sigismund Levanevsky "The Russian Lindbergh" on August 13, 1937. Archbold's airplane, the civilian PBY-1 "Guba", participated in the search as did the other Lockheed 10E Special which was actually purchased from the original owner Vanderbilt by the Soviet Union. Despite a massive search, nothing was ever found. (Don't even think it.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:30:43 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: souvenirs and timing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Ric, Based on your time estimate of Florida time to Howland, Betty's first overheard message from Earhart was about 8:30 AM Howland time. Presumably, she over heard the last transmission at 08:44AM("We are on the line of position..." and would be reflected in her notes.(If her clock were correct) What ,if any, transmission did she hear from KHAQQ between 08:30 to 08:44 (Odd that she recorded all the times and messages, but never put a date on the notebook!) Does her notebook reflect any transmissions from Itasca to KHAQQ during the critical time between 08:30 to around 11:00 ,when the Itasca headed out to find Earhart. Could one hypothectically hear Earhart's 50 watt transmitter at 1000 ft then on land/sea but not Itasca's transmissions on the same frequency?? Does her notebook describe in more subjective terms her voice quality; do her notes have radiospeak language as in the Itasca log. Latitude/Longitude that one would expect if a flyer were down,etc LTM, Ron Bright ************************************************************************** From Ric Why, I wonder, does everyone seem to assume that Betty heard what she heard on July 2nd? we don't know what day it was but it wasn't the 2nd or the 3rd and probably not the 4th (see my previous posting). Betty's notes include no subjective comments and include no obvious "radiospeak." There are, however, several strings of numbers that - so far at least - don't seem to make any sense. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:40:31 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: The signal goes round n' round, oh-oh-oh-oh.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike E, the Radio Historian #2194: A hypothesis for how AE's signals could have been heard in St. Pete (if they were AE's signals): Suppose AE's transmitter was mistuned. Suppose it was radiating a strong second, or even third harmonic... perhaps even stronger than the fundamental? That means the 6210 KHz signal could also be heard on 12420 KHz or even 18630 KHz... both of these freqs were well within the range of many home-type all-wave sets (most tuned up to 20 MHz if they had true all wave coverage, usually meaning three bands -- standard broadcast, "police" 1.5-6 MHz and "short wave" 6-60... yes, in those days, the po-lice were using freqs in the 1.6 and 2.4 mhz regions and the low SW band on many sets was called the "police" band even tho it extended quite a bit further). Freqs in the 12 and 18 MHz bands have excellent daylight skip propagation. A very good reason to think this may be true, is the line about the "rough modulation" or "broad signal" (I forget the exact wording) in the Chater Report regarding AE's transmitter on 6210. These conditions may be indicative of a mistuned xmtr. Joe Gurr, when he lengthened the antenna on NR16020, may have made a critical tuning problem even worse... and the way the rig was coupled into the antenna, with the connection made directly to the power-amplifier output coil, really invited harmonic radiation! And here is another thought (get ready, Bob Brandenburg...) Consider the possibility of some type of strange propagation phenomena in the tropics, on ANY freq. Something like tropical ducting. St. Pete is not that far north of the tropics. Ric alluded to other independent reports of signals being received... what were the locations of reception? Any idea of the freqs? Is it not strange, though... even mystical? That these signals were received by young women, as Ric hinted? I agree with another posting. We should ask Betty what AE books she may have read. Some of this sounds like the stuff in "Flying Blind" by Max Alan Collins, which came out in 1998 or 1999... that guy took every AE story, every conspiracy theory, every Japanese connection, and made some interesting fiction out of it... but his account of McMenamy's reception of signals sounds very Orson Welles-esque. For Janet Whitney: Yes, many communications receivers tuned up to 30 MHz in 1937. Examples are the Hammarlund Super Pro and the National HRO, plus numerous Hallicrafters sets. The typical home receiver with SW bands tuned at least through the 12 MHz (25 meter) and 15 MHz (19 meter) bands and quite a few went up to 20 MHz. LTM (who has big and very efficient ears) and 73 Mike E. *************************************************************************** From Ric Betty says she has never read any Earhart book. The first what-happened-to-Amelia books were all Japanese capture/conspiracy and Betty had no interest in them because she "knew" they were wrong. Betty has never been an Earhart fan and so had no interest in the later biographies or in the crashed-and-sank theories, again, because she "knew" that Earhart had come down on an island and the plane had been threatened and probably destroyed by rising water. I'll put up a separate posting about the other women who have reported hearing post-loss signals on the short wave. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:48:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Kanawa cutting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Ric wrote: >> Well, if ....we're right about the 7 Site being where the bones were found ....then somebody went clear to the SE to cut kanawa in December of 1939.<< Sure, but that's a bit circular, isn't it? The availability of kanawa, and the timing of its cutting, are among the variables we need to consider in determining which site is the place where the bones were found; we can't turn around and use our current hypothesis about where the bones were found as evidence of where the kanawa was cut. LTM Tom *************************************************************************** From Ric Forget the 7 Site. Gallagher says the bones were found on the SE part of the island. He says the tree from which the box was made stood near the where the bones were found. He also says that the tree stood there until a year before December 1940. Is it circular to then conclude that somebody was cutting kanawa on the SE end of the island in December 1939? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:49:43 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Noonan's accident MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King I didn't intend my remark particularly as a "slap" at Goerner, but as an observation on where Don's evidence seemed to be leading. It's hardly a new thing to note that Goerner took an awful lot of heresay evidence as factual. LTM (who says a slap with a kanawa branch hurts!) TK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:38:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Radio AVC and DF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney Checking the literature from the 30's, it was standard operating procedure for aircrew members to turn the DF receiver's automatic volume control off while direction finding, since leaving the AVC on would affect the null the DF loop and the "A" and "N" volume from the radio range antenna (which was usually a wire antenna on the belly of the plane and could also be used for AM broadcast reception.) Presumably there were radio range stations (beacons) near the cities Earhart and Noonan would visit in the U.S.; possibly in foreign countries too. Janet Whitney ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:39:39 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: St. Petersburg Radio Stations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Frank Westlake Ric, This guy appears to have done some extensive research on the history of radio in the St. Petersburg-Tampa area that may be useful to you: I've only examined one of his pages and in it he lists FCC licensing dates for local stations: "Various articles about Tampa-St. Petersburg early radio (including the first phased-array directional antenna)" Frank Westlake ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:01:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Page by page description MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Ric: Are the "page" references to pages in the notebook? If so, are the pages numbered or is this your own numbering? Thanks, --Chris Kennedy *************************************************************************** From Ric The pages in the notebook are not numbered. This was originally an 86-page notebook but several pages have been torn out. Betty attributes the missing pages to sketches that she didn't like and descriptions of marching drills from school which were the notebook's original purpose. The skteches in the notebook are all of people, mostly simple line drawing profiles and full face portraits. Here's a breakdown of what is on each page and a Not-Earlier-Than (NET) date for each page (where possible) based upon the results of the film and song survey done by the forum. cover - VASSAR Composition Book back of cover - blank 1 - Betty's name and three sketches 2 - blank 3 through 22 - torn out 23 - list of films. NET June 11, 1937 24 through 26 - torn out 27 & 28 - blank 29 - song "It Looks Like Rain..." NET June 11, 1936 but song is a Number 1 Hit for week of July 3, 1937. 30 - blank 31 - list of songs. NET April 18, 1937 but one song "Merry-Go-Round..." is a Number 1 Hit for week of July 3, 1937. 32 - blank 33 - song "Love Bug Will Bite You" and 11 sketches NET April 5, 1937 34 - song "Where Are You?" NET unknown but film was released April 18, 1937 35 - songs "Carelessly" and "Just a Quiet Evening" and 4 sketches NET April 1937 36 - song "There's a Lull..." and 2 sketches. NET unknown but film was released August 23, 1937 37 - song "A Sailboat.." and 3 sketches 38 - song "They Can't Take That Away..." NET March 14, 1937 39 - 5 sketches 40 - 9 sketches and a boyfriend's name and Betty's name written several times 41 - song " It Looks Like Rain..." and 5 sketches NET June 11, 1936 but song is a Number 1 Hit for week of July 3, 1937. 42 - blank except for words "I no know" and "I no know I'm" (song lyric?) 43 - song, "Where Are You? and 4 sketches 44 - 16 sketches, song title "Johnny One Note" and notations "31.05" and "KGMB" 45 - 9 sketches 46 - song, "All God's Children got Rythm" 47 - song title "Merry-Go-Round..." written twice and crossed out, and 4 sketches 48 - song, "You Can't run Away From Love..." NET unknown. Film released June 30, 1937. This left-hand page faces the first page of Earhart notes and has a notation "Amelia Earhart, July 1937". 49 - Earhart notes. In upper left corner of page is written in darker pencil and a more mature hand " Time I heard Amelia Erheart (sic) call for help. Dad had put up a tall aireal (sic) from house to pole in lot in back of our house for short wave on radio. I always came home from school and listened to short wave and all summer. We lived on (gives address)." 50 - blank (all facing pages in Earhart notes are blank) 51 - Earhart notes 52 - blank 53 - Earhart notes 54 - blank 55 - Earhart notes 56 - blank 57 - Earhart notes 58 - blank 59 - 6 sketches labled Albo Bendino, Delma, Juan, Sid Waters, Dell & Bell, and Tresa 60 - 8 skteches labled Sadie, Dixie, Linkie Skar 61 - 6 skteches 62 - 16 skteches. at top of page is written "Life Depends upon it." 63 - song? "Harbor", lyric " I saw the ... Harbor light. They only told me..." 64 - song title? "Whispers in the Dark" 65- blank 66- blank 67 - 5 sketches and words "Hello George" 68 - 15 sketches and song title "Where Are You? crossed out. 69 - 13 sketches 70 - 8 sketches 71 - 8 sketches 72 - 6 sketches 73 - 5 sketches 74 - 11 sketches labled Dot, Astaka, Lora, Belle 75 - 4 sketches labled Dora, Judy, Meg, Marina 76 - 2 sketches, one labled Doris 77- 6 sketches and the words Doris Kenyon 78 - 8 skteches 79 - 7 sketches (one scribbled over) 80 - 9 sketches 81 - 2 sketches 82 - 5 sketches 83 - 4 sketches 84 - 10 sketches and boyfriend's name 85 - 5 sketches 86 - 12 skwtches and boyfriend's name inside back cover - blank outside back cover - various weights and measures tables ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:04:15 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Original Lockheed Cruise Performance Data for the 10E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Oscar Boswell Ric, Earlier this year, we lamented the lack of original Lockheed cruise performance data on the 10E. Through the courtesy of Birch Matthews, I have now had access to Lockheed Report 465: "Flight Tests-10E, Prepared by C.L. Johnson, Date Nov. 16, 1935." This is not the POH or final Operating Instructions (which are in Report No. 466, according to Elgen Long), but the report of the tests that presumably produced the numbers used in the final operating instructions. The Report contains a graphic "Level Cruising Performance" chart dated Nov. 14, 1935, giving curves for speeds at 200, 250, 300, 350, 412, 450, 500, and 550 hp at various altitudes, and includes a temperature correction chart. Since the Forum does not accomodate email attachments, I am sending you a photocopy of that chart via courier, together with a table I prepared interpreting the graph, and giving speeds at sea level, 1000, 5000, 8000 and 10,000 feet for some of those horsepower settings (and for other - interpolated - settings as well). I personally find the table - with numbers - easier to use for quick reference than the graph, which I have tried to read and interpret as accurately as possible, although (as with any interpolation) someone else might see 174 or 176 where I write "175." Birch also furnished me with a set of Lockheed Model 10 (10A) operating instructions, intended for the foreign market (speeds in km, etc.) I am sending you a copy of the graphic "Cruising Chart" from that report, together with another table I have prepared showing speeds at various horsepower settings and altitudes for the 10A. I enclose the 10A data as well as that for the 10E because there is a very interesting anomaly, which I am quite unable to explain, about which more in a minute. What does the 10E data indicate about cruise speeds at Kelly Johnson's settings, and how do those speeds differ from those we estimated in April: 60 gph @ 8,000 - 196 (exactly as estimated) 51 gph @ 8,000 - 189 (5 mph faster than estimated) 43 gph @ 8,000 - 176 (8 mph faster than estimated) 38 gph @10000 - 173 (16 mph faster than estimated!) The magnitude of the difference at the lower power settings surprises me somewhat, but what surprises me even more is the comparision with the 10A numbers. Note that the charts for both airplanes are for operations at the same gross weight (10,500 pounds). The 10E should have more drag than the 10A because of its larger engines, nacelles and cowls, but otherwise they are nearly the same. What do the charts show for speeds at 5000 feet? 10A 10E 400 hp 205 194 350 hp 195 188 325 hp 189 183 300 hp 181 178 275 hp 175 173 250 hp 167 168 (!) 225 hp 159 163 (!!) 200 hp 151 158 (!!!) I trust everone has noticed that while the data show the 10A as being faster than the 10E at the higher power settings (as we would have expected), the 10 E is faster than the 10A at settings below 250 hp, and the speed advantage increases as the power is reduced still further. I have no idea what to make of this reversal. In any case, I pass this on for whatever it is worth to those who remain interested in the subject. It prompts, of course, some "Second Thoughts on 10 E Performance". ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:07:05 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Epoxy and Cemen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Brandenburg Tom robison asked: > Where does one buy this J-B Weld? Any hardware, or is it a specialty item? It's a standard item available in any hardware store. Home Depot carries it too. Bob *************************************************************************** From Mart Moleski I found mine in an auto parts store. Marty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:08:31 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Movie release dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Muenich St. Peterburg is a fairly large city and I presume had one or more daily papers. If the forum has anybody in that area, a review of the local library or possibly the newspaper archives themselves might show dates in the theater section if the older papers had such an item. That review might also reveal what had been published in the area concerning AE's flight and loss. You will probably need a good story to visit the paper's archives, they usually reserve them for their own use and are not generally available to the public. ************************************************************************** From Ric You couldn't ask for a better story. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:10:13 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Chronological Order MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy I have gotten the impression from several postings submitted that if the release dates of the songs/movies in Betty's notebook are out of chronological sequence with the likely dates of the Earhart-related notations, then that fact alone will be highly relevant to many people in determining whether the notebook is a genuine record of what Betty heard (this is a separate question, of course, from whether what she heard was really from Earhart). I guess I would like to raise a word of caution in this regard: If you think about it for a second, I suspect this notebook is something much less formal than a Franklin dayplanner, and given the use of the notebook as something to record one's hobby, I can think of lots of reasons why many things may not be in sequence (e.g., Betty may have been so startled by the Earhart transmissions that she wanted to record them on a clean page(s), then, as the drama passed, later went back and made other records around these notes; also, the release dates of the songs/movies may not bear a too close relationship to the actual time that Betty chose, for reasons now unknown, to make an entry of them into the notebook. Finally, remember, also, we are talking about 1937 and the country is in what I have been told is the "second depression" of the late 1930s (1937-1939)...we can expect every part of a notebook to be filled before someone will buy another, chronological order be damned). I also would feel pretty silly condemning the Betty notebook based upon notations made out of chronological order, as I have next to me as I type this a favorite notebook of my own that I have been using over the last year to record various professional and personal notes---lots of these notations do not follow a chronological order either. --Chris Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:11:07 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Local noon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell Dennis, the North star will give you latitude and since we are talking scattered islands it wouldn't have to be all that accurate. Keep in mind that the basic question was whether they went SE to the Phoenix group, West toward the Gilberts or NW toward the Marshalls. A general latitude call would answer that. A precise latitude would nearly pinpoint the island unless there were a bunch of islands exactly on the same latitude line. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:12:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Old Radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Alan Caldwell Ric, when I was a child in the middle to late 30s, I listened to a lot of short wave from around the world on my grndpa's Zenith console. It had 5 bands and it was easy to see what general frequency you were on. His antenna was as you would suppose-- a wire from the radio up the side of the house using standoffs and then reaching out to a pole in the garden -- maybe 50 to 70 feet. I see no reason to eliminate Betty's radio for lack of capability on what we know. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:13:02 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Local noon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom MM With a marine sextant, you simply follow one of the sun's limbs (usually lower limb) in the final stage (maybe 30 minutes) of its climb, turning the mircrometer drum until with successive readings the sun reaches its zenith and appears to "hang" in the sky. You can use that final reading as the maximum altitude, or (if you have a watch) you can continue to take readings as the sun begins to "drop" and then plot a curve (the time of max altitude of the curve being meridian passage). Either way, after you apply your corrections, you have the observed altitude at local apparent noon. In the absence of an Almanac FN could easily estimate the corrections well enough for effective emergency use. You will also need the sun's declination to determine lattitude, but this changes slowly, especially when the sun is near one of the solstices (ie, late June/early July). FN could use an average value for the day or even a value that he remembered using sometime in the previous day and not be too far off. Because the celestial triangle resolves to a single line/arc at LAN, you do not need sight reduction tables for determining lattitude at LAN (you just add/subtract a few lines). This could be very handy if all you have is your sextant and a good idea of the sun's declination. Got to run - hope this is clear enough to be helpful. Tom MM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:18:27 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: something new MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Mike Muenich Several commentators seem to have concluded that the notebook is bogus because AE used her name, not her radio call sign or aircraft tail number and that the "drama" of her struggling with FN is some sort of window dressing to gloss up her account. She had been using call signs of one sort or another all morning without much success. Very few people are going to know KHAQQ or November whatever (NR16020) and might not respond to a call, broadcast across the Pacific to anyone who could hear her, for help. If she screams "this is Amelia Earhart", given the publicity surrounding her flight, everyone will know who is calling. About the drama of FN struggling for the mike, we are not talking about a sterile broadcast studio, or even a semi-quiet cockpit where everybody keeps quiet while one person talks. Its tough to remember your intitial objective is to clear the swamp when you are up to your _ _ _ in alligators. I doubt that radio discipline was high on FN's (or AE's for that matter) priority list under the limited circumstances described so far. Remember he's been with her for the past 16 plus hours, presumbably listening to her one way radio conversations, failure to get a DF, and inability to communicate with anyone. AE has just dumped this thing in the ocean, (reef), the water is rising (tide coming in--sharks, not alligators), he's hurt and he's not real confident about AE's capabilities at flying, talking on the radio, chewing gum, or anything else (what plan "B") at this point in time. Am I going to grab for the mike to get control or shout in the background to get my point across--you bet your sweet whatever I am. It's every man (woman) for himself at this point and AE is not telling me what to do anymore. The times of Betty's saga, about 3:00 p.m. to I presume 6:00 p.m. (Mr. Gillespie hasn't shown all his cards yet) seem to fit very well within the range of probable landing times at Niku. I think we can forgive an elderly lady one hour (maybe it was 4:00 to 7:00 p.m.) 63 years ago, assuming Betty's notebook does not specify the times of entry on her "log". It is my memory that TIGHAR had estimated an arrival time between 9:30 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. at Niku, depending on her position at last transmission. I seem to remember numerous postings about one year ago on just what time all this occured and how GMT would be calculated at Lae, Howland, and Niku. If Betty is plus/minus one hour, or even two hours, I think it gives her story more credibility than less. Maybe it was even the next day, not the day of the ditching. The post-loss messages (some of which are now believe to be credible) apparently went on for several days. If he's capable of moving or returning to the aircraft, do you think FN is going to let AE handle this on her own? *************************************************************************** From Ric Here's another card for you. Several of Betty's pages of notes have time notations on them. The actual beginning time is not noted but the ending time is, as are several interim times along the way. In other words, the local time of the event is rather well documented. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:23 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: epoxy and cement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Ric says: "I'd say just replace the bolts." That's the top-of-the-head response I got from Frances Gale, an expert in historic masonry maintenance and repair at the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training, too. She suggested inserting sleeves in the existing bolt holes, secured with a type of cement widely used in conservation work (She'll get me the name, etc.), and bolting the new one on. This would, of course, allow somebody to take it off again, but as Gerry points out, that's better than having them rip up the monument. LTM TK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:21:09 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Something new MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt One for Cam or Mike or for someone with a s/wave radio from the 30's. Cam wrote: > Betty's receiver - > > It was quite common, during the thirties, for "home" radio > receivers to have two or three short-wave bands as an added > attraction. My Sears "Silvertone" floor model had such, and > (I believe) cost the princely sum of $16.95. Needless to say, > it's sensitivity and selectivity left a lot to be desired, and > it certainly did NOT have a "CW" switch. Nor did you have the > foggiest idea of the precise frequency you'd tuned! > > Cam Warren The old s/w radio I dug out of mothballs is a huge early transistor job (about 6 transistors I think) with 3 x SW bands, 1 x MW, 1 x LW and 1 x FM (which used to only pick up TV ststions when I first got it, but now we have FM radio). I originally bought it for remote area (real remote) listening when I was travelling (it has a huge hole in the back that "eats" large torch batteries). My point (yes, finally getting to it) is: 3105kc is smack bang in the middle of SW1 band, just above the top of the blue line for the 90metre amateur band (the line runs from 3000kc to 3500kc). 6210 is about 1/3 along the SW2 band from the left. The blue line for amateur bands says 49 under that area (that line runs about 5700kcor 5800kc to about 6400kc). SW Band 1 is 1.6MHz - 4.5MHz SW Band 2 is 4.5MHz - 12MHz SW Band 3 is 12MHz - 26MHz The Amateur bands marked inc