========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:56:06 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: hot needles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King <> What, you've never tried acupuncture? ***************************************************************** From Ric Wonderful. Now we're doing alternative therapies on artifacts. I wonder if we all swallowed a a tiny bit of the shoe sole we might be able to homeopathically determine its origin? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:00:00 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Hot needle test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Ric: said: "James Matthews (the archaeologist examing the button) is doing something called a "hot needle test" to that end." If memory serves me, that is a common test to determine the difference between plastic and natural products. Simply heat the pin tip until it is red-hot (yes, you should use gloves!) and touch the tip to the object in an inconspicuous place. If the pin tip sinks in the object is probably plastic or some other man-made stuff. If not, it is probably a natural product, i.e. antler, seashell, ivory, etc.. Helpful, but not infallible. (BTW This was also a common practice -- long, long ago in a land far, far away --for making bullet holes in the fuselages of my model aircraft to simulate battle damage. The problem was that the proportions weren't correct; what was intended to look like .50-caliber machine gun bullet holes on a 1/72nd scale plastic aircraft instead more closely resembled holes from a 40mm cannon! KA-BLOOEY!) LTM, who is nostalgic today Dennis O. McGee #0149CE ***************************************************************** From Ric A similar technique is also useful in conducting interviews. It's amazing what people will tell you if properly motivated. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:21:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 7 site observation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy The Laxton explanation also struck me as strange, simply for the reason that I can't imagine why anyone needs a "vacation house" get-away on the island (how much isolation can you take), which leads me to think it was built for a special, limited purpose. If the rectangular object is a desalinization unit, I wonder why it was left there. Any ideas? Maybe it didn't work, but still it could have been used for scrap like other pieces of aluminum. I will re-check the dates of the photo and when Gallagher would've been at the site searching, but, since "island time" runs more slowly than our's maybe they just hadn't gotten around to taking it back yet. --Chris **************************************************************** From Ric The chronology goes like this: September 23, 1940 - Gallagher says he has found bones and artifacts. October 26, 1940 - Vaskess orders "organized search" December 27, 1940 - Gallagher reports that an "intensive search" has been made. February 11, 1941 - Isaac informs Gallagher that remains are those of an "elderly Polynesian male." June 12, 1941 - Gallagher leaves Nikumaroro June 20, 1941 - Photo is taken. From the above it would appear most likely that the organized/intensive search was done circa early November 1940 before the weather turned sour in late November and December as reported by Galllagher. For most of this time the island's wireless was also inop, which explains why Gallagher did not report further discoveries as they were made. Why was a (putative) water condenser still on site in June after probably being brought there the previous November? Hard to say. It's awfully heavy and hard to transport. Maybe it wasn't needed back in the village (we see several similar tanks in the village today). It does, however, seem to have been moved from where it appears in the 1941 photo to where we found it in 1996 (assuming its the same tank). Maybe they got it part way back to the lagoon shore and said "Ah, screw it!" and just left it there. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:27:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Almon A. Gray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From JHam 2128 re Gray: Ric/Vern et al, A Forum posting by someone named Bob in Jan. 1999 said Gray is deceased. I am trying to get in touch with Riley, who wrote the latest Naval History article mentioning Gray, about both Gray and Lang. An email address I was given for Riley did not work (nothing is ever easy with AE/FN) and I'm recontacting my original source for other info, if they have it. Blue skies, -jerry ***************************************************************** From Ric The Naval Institute is usually pretty good about that. I did receive a phone call from a reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle who was doing a story on the article for the Earhart disappearance anniversary (gotta have something on Amelia every July 2nd). She said that the Naval Institute "agonized for three years before publishing Riley's allegations and consulted fact checkers and lawyers before agreeing to go ahead." Can ou believe it? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:39:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Almon A. Gray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Jon Watson Hi Ric, There's only one book in the Library of Congress catalog by an author named Michael A. Lang. I copied the info from the listing below. It looks like it's in German, which I don't read. I'm sure one of the Tighars can translate the title for us. Author: Lang, Michael Andreas, 1912- [from old catalog] Title: Rund um an See. Published: Wels, Verl. Welserm=FChl (1973). Description: 62 p. 19 cm. LC Call No.: PT2672.A4494R8 Control No.: 8077612 ltm jon 2266 ***************************************************************** From Ric It' an idiomatic expression equivalent to: Das Leben von Frederich Noonan. Actually, our best German 202 translation is something like "Around The Worl= d=20 By Sea."=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:41:10 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on coral reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Actually, I know from personal experience that Ric's version of events is entirely plausible. As you know, I surf a lot down in Galveston. Several years ago they did an artificial beach replenishment project at my favorite surf spot, and pumped a whole bunch of sand from offshore onto the beach. As storms struck, the new sand was gradually pulled outward, reducing the water depth (and incidentally messing up the surf close in and bringing in bunches of stupid bathers into the surf area). Over time, this sand washed out farther to sea, restoring the water depth, the waves, and also cutting down the number of bathers close in. Actually, I remember there being sand plumes out from the beach for awhile. --Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:50:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 7 site observation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Joe Arcure Tom King wrote; < Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on the coral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Richard Lund good point about the shipwreck next to the mark, not having any troubles.never actually caught that.does anyone know a good jpeg viewer I could try? I'm using I.e.5 and it won't allow me to zoom to certain areas of the photographs.this is kind of frustrating when trying to see the points you mention. sorry for any confusion lack of experience at this sort of thing may cause,but I'll keep trying(hopefully getting better). Richard lund ***************************************************************** From Ric There's no shipwreck next to the mark. If someone would like to offer richard some software suggestions his email address is 60goose@home.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:55:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Fuel Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney Before WWII, the U.S. Navy and other nations' naval forces converted from using #2 fuel oil to #6 fuel oil. Number 2 fuel oil is what is used in home oil furnaces. Number 6 oil has the consistency of cold molasses and must be heated before being pumped and used in steam boilers. The advantage of using #6 fuel oil is that it is much less volatile. If a tank of #6 oil is ruptured, the oil tends to form a thick oil slick. Number 6 oil does not usually evaporate but is eventually broken up by wave action. A #6 oil slick can drift for hundreds of miles before breaking up or being washed on a beach. There are also various grades of crude oil. Some are quite volatile and some are less volatile. Janet Whitney ***************************************************************** From Ric What's your point? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:58:03 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Effects of Oil on Marine Environment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Herman De Wulf Actually I remember the figure for all the ships, boats, vessels, barges, U-boats, etc. sunk in WW II (between 1 September 1939 and 8 May 1945) was said to be 4,000 worldwide. Among these were hundreds of oil tankers torpedoed in the Atlantic, the North Sea, the Arctic Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, not to mention the rest of the world, including the Pacific. When the war was over nobody complained, certainly not about any oil spillage... I can remember that when I was a boy, the "white cliffs of Dover" were not white at all (around 1950). At some places they were black with oil from ships that had foundered in the English Channel (quite a few). I don't know if anyone ever cleaned it up but after a few years it was all gone. And where did all the oil go that was spilled in mid-ocean ? ***************************************************************** From Ric I suspect that WWII was probably pretty bad for the environment. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:06:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 7 site observation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From PK What are the dimensions of the "7" its self? Will it be feasible to conduct a detailed search or excavation of the entire "7" region on you next visit? Lastly, could the coral discoloration be due to a repeated boat landings? PK **************************************************************** From Ric If you define it as a square that occupies the entire width of the island at that point, the 7 site is roughly 200 meters on each side. That's more area than we can hope to examine in detail with the time and resources available to us. So - it will be important to define the most suspect area much more closely than that. Repeated boat landings? We don't see similar marks on the reef where we know there were repeated boat landings, and that beach is normally the windward/weather side of the island - about the worst place to try to get ashore. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:09:03 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: The other side of an island MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King In response to my comment that "Robert Lewis Stephenson writes about how typically in Kiribati and elsewhere in the area the ocean side of the island..", Bob Sherman has asked: "What, pray tell, is on the other side of islands?" Duh. Good question. I was thinking of islands on an atoll (of which Niku is a rather extreme example), where the lagoon shore is the "other side" of the island. Sorry for any confusion. LTM (who likes to know which side she's on) TK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:13:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Coast Guard Buttons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dillard Gates (Note from Ric: Mr. Gates is not a subscriber to the forum but copied the forum in on this response to Chuck Boyles inquiry about Coast guard buttons.) June 30, 2000 Dear Chuck: I have little to contribute to the button issue. When we first arrived on Canton many if not most of the crew cut the legs off their denim dungarees. Sometime later we were issued green shirts and trousers. Most of us immediately cut the legs off these fatigues as well. I do not specifically recall the buttons on either the dungarees or the green fatigues. However it seems to me that the waist button on both were metal. Since there were natives on Gardner before, during and after the Loran Unit was there it would seem to me that there may have been literally 100's of sources for the button. It was a remote island but there had been British activities there before the Coast Guard arrived. There undoubtedly were many unrecorded visits to the island. It seems to me that the researchers on this project are approaching the job with little understanding of the scientific method. The scientific method would aim at trying to identify and explain the artifacts rather than trying to prove a preexisting notion. I realize it is considered impossible to prove a negative. That is it may be difficult to prove that Earhart was not there but on the other hand I have neither seen nor heard solid evidence that she was there. It appears that there are some who are trying to prove she was there rather than making an objective analysis of the artifacts found and the evidence at hand. That said I hope all is well with you and yours. Sincerely, Dillard H. Gates ***************************************************************** From Ric Useful information, but Mr. Gates obviously has some misconceptions about how we do things. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:25:26 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Hot needle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Marty Ric; The "hot needle test" was also mentioned on that website, but not recommended. I don't know why. The other way sounds easier and possibly less destructive? Marty 0724 ***************************************************************** From Ric Perhaps, but I gave the go ahead for the hot needle so we'll live with it. The plan was to do it inside one of the thread holes so the effect should be minimal. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:34:07 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Reef mark at the Seven... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chistian D Gee... I don't have all the elements and the chronology at my fingertips; but could it have been the major search done by "Irish"? If they did some extensive digging, they may just have taken the excavated dirt to the edge of the beach, may be dumped it with a wheelbarrow? Just to get the stuff out of the way? Might have been easier than first clearing a land dump from the heavy brush... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:39:53 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Sifting Sand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern Meanwhile back at Tatiman Passage... There may have been aircraft wreckage on the reef near the Norwich City hulk. Stuff from the reef tends to be carried through the passage into the lagoon. Such stuff might tend to be deposited just inside the lagoon where water velocity decreases. If the coral was already dead in 1937, there would be only a sand deposit where the passage enters the lagoon. I believe it has been said that that is the case. Maybe this is a place for one of those pumps that can handle sand and small chunks of stuff to "vacuum" up sand and deposit it somewhere on dry land -- after passing through a screen to catch the larger pieces for examination. In the process, still larger pieces of stuff might be uncovered under water. The pump would not have to be the kind of big pump we see used in deep water on TV. In this case, it has to lift water and sand only a few feet. I can imagine a rather modest gasoline engine driven pump. How much sand might one sift? Depends on how much the pump will move per unit time and how much time can be given to the operation. Wishful thinking, I expect. Not enough time nor manpower to dredge out a significant area and depth. ***************************************************************** From Ric We actually already owns such a dredge. We bought the thing in preparation for Niku III in 1997 and carted it to the island and back without ever using it. It's now stored in Fiji. The bog question about digging/dredging in that sand bar is where to start? It's huge and it's about 15 feet deep. We'll want to know a lot more about where stuff should be based upon the predicted dynamics of that specific environment before we go moving a bunch of sand. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:57:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Riley allegations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From David Evans Katz Sorry to ask something that everyone else obviously knows, but I wasn't around last year. What (briefly) are the "Riley allegations"? Thank you. David Katz ******************************************************************From Ric It wasn't last year, it was last week. On Monday 6/26 I posted: The current issue of Naval History has an article entitled "The Earhart Tragedy: Old Mystery, New Hypothesis" You'll find it at: http://www.usni.org/Naval_History/Articles00/nhriley.htm John Riley wrote the article. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:02:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Evidence of House? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Ric, if you look at the last series of 7 site photos (the ones showing the rectilinear object), you will note something appearing just under half an inch to the left of the rectilinear object. It almost looks like something square with a light colored top. I can't tell whether its simply scrub with light colored coral behind, but it does stick out. Your computer might help pick it out in more detail. Could this be Gallagher's "house"? It stands to reason that any such structure would be near the water collection device.... --Chris Kennedy **************************************************************** From Ric Yeah, I know the thing you're talking about. We looked at it real hard back before the 1996 trip. Depending on what forensic tricks you use on it you can make it look like a little shelter or a little bush. Nothing conclusive. What that site needs is some intense on-the-ground inspection. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:06:23 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Robert Lewis Stevenson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Joe Arcure Two sons Named Robert? Were they related to George Foreman with 6 sons named George? I stand corrected! Joe W3HNK *************************************************************** From Ric Lest anyone be misled by the forum's rather warped sense of humor, we're kidding about this. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:33:57 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 7 site observation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Roger Kelley Oh no !! Maybe Robert LEWIS Stevenson made it to Niku and, ya know those old bones that Irish found? Have we solved the bone mystery or what ?? 2 1/2 years of Earhart e-mails......can't even find the "back space" key.....sigh n sob.... LTM (who loves a great adventure story) Roger Kelley, #2112 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:37:48 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Coast Guard Buttons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From William Webster-Garman Dillard Gates wrote, It seems to me that the researchers on this project are approaching the job with little understanding of the scientific method. The scientific method would aim at trying to identify and explain the artifacts rather than trying to prove a preexisting notion. ------------ TIGHAR is not trying to fit the button to a pre-existing notion. TIGHAR would like, if possible, to identify the source of the button. william 2243 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:42:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Fuel Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Herman De Wulf Ric, I think the point is this is the explanation for why little of all that fuel of ships that were torpedoed or sunk by bombs during WW II never reached any beach. What kind of fuel did the Norwich City burn ? **************************************************************** From Ric I suspect that lots of the oil from torpedoed ships reached the beach but in the context of war it didn't seem worth mentioning. I don't know what kind of oil Norwich City burned but I'd want to have some idea that having that information would help us find Amelia before I spent a lot time researching it. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:46:13 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Reef mark at the Seven... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From William Webster-Garman Christian D wrote, If they did some extensive digging, they may just have taken the excavated dirt to the edge of the beach, may be dumped it with a wheelbarrow? ------------- Relatively speaking, that would represent some truly extensive digging. Soil analysis onsite, anyone? william 2243 **************************************************************** From Ric I'd be surprise if Gallagher's search involved much digging. The "soil" in that area is coral rubble (which looks a whole lot like pieces of bone). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:48:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Almon A. Gray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Kerry Tiller > She said that the Naval Institute "agonized for > three years before publishing Riley's allegations and consulted fact checkers > and lawyers before agreeing to go ahead." Can ou believe it? I can believe it. Our primary concern in the navy is "CYA". BTW, since it is already the 2nd here in Japan, allow me to be the first to say "Happy (?) anniversary. LTM Kerry Tiller #2350 ***************************************************************** From Ric Happy indeed. Heck, if she hadn't disappeared we'd all have to find something else to scratch our heads about. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:49:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Reef mark at the Seven... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Christian wonders: I don't have all the elements and the chronology at my fingertips; but could it have been the major search done by "Irish"? If they did some extensive digging, they may just have taken the excavated dirt to the edge of the beach, may be dumped it with a wheelbarrow? Just to get the stuff out of the way? Might have been easier than first clearing a land dump from the heavy brush... Interesting thought. Pretty common archaeological technique, then as now, to barrow or basket your backdirt well away from the excavation site. But if they did that much digging, I'd expect we'd still see some evidence of it, and Laxton would have seen even more. I think we've assumed that they just did a close surface inspection, but it's certainly possible that they did some digging, and even screening. TK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:51:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Stevenson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Well, I thought as I typed it, "now, is it Lewis or Louis? Stevenson, or Stephenson? Never CAN remember. Oh well, somebody on the Forum will doubtless correct me, and then I'll always remember. Thanks, Joe. LTMather? Moother? Muther? Tom ****************************************************************** From Ric That's "Mutha." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:55:20 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: oil impact on coral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Richard Lund This is a webpage with a report on the damage done to the coral in the ocean after the gulf war,if anyone would like to read up on the subject. http://www.scilib.ucsd.edu/sio/guide/zgulfwar.html However, I believe it was stated unlikely to be the cause of such a large area of the reef as the marks indicated.as it would take more oil than what was in AE's Electra to create the mark in the coral. ric: by near the spot in my previous post I meant on the same island,I'll try to be more precise in future post and to do a little more research into my theories before I post them to the forum.hopefully this will help minimize your already busy workload. Thank you as well to those who responded to my request for software suggestions. "the truth is only a matter of opinion" Richard ***************************************************************** From Ric ...and history is a collection of agreed-upon lies. I hope not. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:58:24 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howared Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Warren Lambing > >From Ric > > Good question. I don't know much about Hughes' flight except that he flew > a Lockheed 14 "Super Electra" and appears to have used the same type of > Hooven Radio Compass rejected by Earhart. Ric Didn't Hughes own Lockheed or Pam AM or was it later he acquire one of them? If he did, perhaps he had some first hand knowledge of the mistakes with the Earhart flight. Regards Warren ***************************************************************** From Ric No. Hughes did not own either Lockheed or Pan Am. I'd frankly be surprised if an aviator of Hughes' ability paid any attention at all to the Earhart flight. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:31:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Warning to new guys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jonathan Einarsen Ok, this one was enough for me to finally de-lurk and chime in my unsolicited 2 cents. First, allow me to introduce myself: My name is Jonathan Einarsen. During daylight I'm a video systems engineer. For the past two months I've been lurking on this forum to satisfy a curiosity that I imagine is shared by most everyone here. I submit this post both as an introduction and to offer the perspective of another "new guy". First of all, I read the introduction. If I remember correctly, it did say that the forum was *strictly* for the discussion of the disappearance of AE and FN as it relates to the possible landing on Niku. That said, I offer the following personal perspective: Prior to last April, my interest in AE was simply a passing curiosity. Then I happened upon *gasp* Elgen Long's book. My main attraction to the book was the cover and specifically the words "Mystery Solved". (Score 0 for the scientific method, 1 for marketing.) I found it a fascinating and interesting read. It appealed directly to several other passing curiosities including early radio, aviation, WWII, history, and an odd sort of interest in the human dynamics of catastrophe) I'll stop short of saying that I believed every word - but I absolutely found it "possible". With my appetite for information on the subject now ravenous, I set out on the web to find more. After a brief stop at a "Saipan" site that I found mostly humorous, I landed on TIGHAR's cyber runway. I must say that my first impression of the site was not considerably better than the "Saipan" site. I would attribute that mostly to a set of pre-existing assumptions that there is a whole heap of water and a teeny tiny bit of dry land in that general vicinity which makes the whole "Landed on a deserted island" concept seem kind of weak - at first. Now two months later I'm still reading every email and my appetite for more is still strong. The theory I first met with skepticism I now consider one of the two most probable scenarios. (Thank you Mr. Gilespie and the rest of TIGHAR for your attention to science, method, and demonstrating a genuine interest in the "truth" and not simply proving the current theory) As for this forum and the non-TIGHAR theories, I have some simple comments: 1) Isn't this a PUBLIC forum? Isn't it open to non-TIGHAR members? As such, wouldn't you EXPECT a certain number of people with dissenting opinions? If you don't want to discuss the "old stuff" with every "new guy" I'd recommend a "member's only" forum. 2) Since my first exposure to the current camps of thought on AE was through the Long's book, I have many questions that relate to the differences between their theories and TIGHAR. If this is a public forum, I would expect it to be the appropriate place for such discussion. 3) I'm going to make the further assumption that this forum is also a vehicle to attract new membership. Perhaps some indulgence of the under-informed would go well to attract some of those elusive financial supporters. 4) Preaching to the choir gets you nowhere, saves no new souls, and is neither fun nor challenging. I truly hope that my expressed opinions do not disguise the seeds of genuine admiration I have for many of the people on this forum. I also hope I've managed to make a better first impression than the last "new guy". I don't know if I have much to offer in the way of new expertise or insight into the matter at hand. I have enjoyed lurking these last two months and look forward to participating in the future. My apologies to the list for the length. Soon-to-be-member, Jonathan ***************************************************************** From Ric Congratulations on your decision to de-lurk (probably a better expression than "coming out"). I take your active participation as a compliment. Thank you. Yes, this is a public forum but it's not a public free-for-all. Our primary objective is to solve the mystery by finding incontrovertible hard evidence (i.e. DNA-matched human remains and/or serial numbered aircraft parts). After twelve years we've pretty much convinced ourselves that we're on the right track and, despite frequent excursions into the realm of crashed-at-sea and captured-by-the-Japanese, have yet to find any support for those theories. It's therefore, I hope, understandable that we prefer to focus on the avenues of investigation that have in the past proved fruitful and, we expect, will do so in the future. That said, we are always open to real evidence that contributes to our understanding of the Earhart case, even if - no - especially if, it casts doubt on anything in the chain of evidence that points to Nikumaroro. We also realize that the people who are most likely to join the forum are those who already have an interest in the Earhart case and, by definition, have read books and articles and have seen TV shows and, quite naturally, have questions. Depite our resemblance to a cult , we really don't expect or want anyone to "convert" on the basis of "faith." We've tried to make a lot of answers available on the TIGHAR website but we can't cover everything that way. So, please, ask your questions and we'll do our best to answer them, and chances are we'll learn something too. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:34:53 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Almon Gray/Michael Lang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern Thanks to Jon Watson... >Author: Lang, Michael Andreas, 1912- [from old catalog] >Title: Rund um an See. (Around The World By Sea), per Ric's German 202 Published: 1973 Maybe Lang became interested in doing one called, "Around the World by Air" and was researching Noonan in preparation for that. "Rund um an Luft," perhaps?? So... We understand that Gray is dead and, if this is our Michael A. Lang, he appears to have been born in 1912 and is probably dead also. What we need to find are living family members of either or both in the hope that someone may still have Lang's stuff. If we could find Gray's family, they may have something that would point us toward Lang and his family. If we can discover Gray's last known location. That might help find family. ****************************************************************** From Ric Actually, it may be a lot easier than that. Turns out there's a Michael Lang who works at the Smithsonian. Much more likley that he's our guy. I'll try to contact him. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:41:01 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: More Gray/Lang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Vern There's always something to nit-pick about. In Riley's article he atributes the knowledge of Fred's having a Radiotelegraph License to Gray. Gray is said to have been Assistant Communications Superintendent for PAA and knew Fred Noonan well. It seems reasonable that he would have know about the license. In his own article, "Amelia Didn't Know Radio," (1993) Gray attributes that information to the "recent research by Noonan biographer, Michael A. Lang." This seems not well explained by "literary license" taken by Riley to simplify the story. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:49:09 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Almon A. Gray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Ric, My good friend Don Wade, you know him, says he will send me all of the Capt AL Gray"s stuff; Wade says Gray's work is the best resource of Amelia's equipment on the Electra. Or do you have his book? Ron Bright (PS For forum members not acquainted with Wade, he was an early researcher, sort of retired, that claims Amelia crashed in the Phoenix Island but not Gardner. As of this date, he won't tell) **************************************************************** From Ric I've never met Don Wade, but I know of him. My understanding is that Wade thinks she crashed on Hull. I don't know what work Gray did to establish what equipment was aboard the Electra and I didn't know he (or Wade) ever wrote a book but his article in Naval History doesn't give any great confidence that he understood historical investigation. It will be interesting to see what Wade sends you. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:54:46 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on coral reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt I've been biting my tongue here for a while, but can't resist the urge to put all my feet in my mouth again.. The clearing has allowed fresh water from the heavy summer rains to pass fairly freely to the beach rather than forcing the absorbtion of the water into the ground. The runoff has been a combination of sand and fresh water. Fresh water flowing across inshore coral will kill the coral and the nutrients it requires in a fairly short time. Coral takes a fair while to regenerate once it dies. Assumption 1: There is coral on the reef at the site of the runoff. Assumption 2: It rains heavily on Niku during the tropical wet season. Model: Damage to the coastal reefs in North Queensland from fresh water runoff from farming lands, plus the runoff from the construction of the "Daintree" road some years ago (and the conservation uproar). Still speculation, however... Th' WOMBAT ***************************************************************** From Ric The clearing was probably done in early November 1940 and we know that there was very heavy weather, almost certainly accompanied by heavy rains, in late November through December. The photo was taken the following June, so that part fits your theory. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:55:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: A note about Antoine De Saint Exupreys P38 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Greg The television program Sunday Morning presented by CBS showed a dive on what could be the remains of St Exupreys P38. The underwater images clearly showed painted sheet metal parts perhaps a spinner and what appeared to be a landing gear leg. There also appeared to be a significant quantity of other debris at the site. The above water images included a rocky outgrowth near the shoreline. Greg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:06:42 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: 2 JULY 1937 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Herman De Wulf > > Hi, > > Just to let everybody know that Amelia Earhart was on Belgian state > television today. It was just a 5 minute commemorative program to remind > viewers that she disappeared on 2 July in 1937. There was a short > biography with shots from newsreels showing her flying a La Cierva > autogiro, getting out of the Fokker FVIIb floatplane becoming the first > woman to have crossed the Atlantic, showing her then with her Lockheed > Vega in Ireland after the first woman solo flight across the Atlantic > and then talking to the farmer on whose meadow she landed, next arriving > in her Vega from Honolulu and holding a conference press, the > inauguration of a monument in London and finally word on her > disappearance during an attempt to fly around the world. Interesting > black & white pictures. No mention of Nikumaroro. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:45:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Michael Lang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric I have just received an email message from the Michael Lang referred to in Almon Gray's article. He has asked that I not say anything further pending discussions about whether or not he has information that he may be willing to share with TIGHAR. I'll let you know more when I can. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:48:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Fuel Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Powell Having woken up from a very long sleep... (), I'm catching up on weeks of forum mail! My attention is drawn to the discussion of fuel oil and the Norwich City, and whilst I am unable to state with any certainty, I can perhaps offer some knowledgeable observations. I understand that at the time of the N.C., a large percentage of Steam Ships were fired using coal...- the N.C. herself was originally coal fired. (I believe that Lloyd's kept percentages oil and coal fired ships in their Registers). Oil in use at that time, was almost certainly 'Bunker Oil', which varied considerably from that used today. It was a much lighter oil... more like, 'a diesel type/gas type oil', and would likely have degraded more quickly. LTM Janet Powell ***************************************************************** From Ric For those who may not recall, Janet is the great neice of Capt. Daniel Hamer, master of S.S. Norwich City. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:50:30 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Margot Still UM, RICHARD, ARE YOU SURE ABOUT HUGHES NOT OWNING PAN AM? (I hate to question the Captain.....) ***************************************************************** From Ric I'm sure he didn't own it at the time in question (1937/38). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:11:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Kerry Tiller Didn't Hughes found Trans World Airlines? Kerry Tiller #2350 *************************************************************** From William Webster-Garman Howard Hughes founded Trans World Airlines (TWA). The name was a direct derivative of and one-upsmanship on the name Pan Am ("across America" > "trans World"). william 2243 ***************************************************************** From Jim Duffy For the info of those interested, it was TWA that was Howard Hughes airline. He never at any time had any interest, or was connected with, the great and long lamented Pan Am. Jim Duffy ***************************************************************** From Roger Kelley If memory serves me right, I think Howard Hughes was a major share holder in TWA after WW II and until the late 50's or early 60's. Hughes involvement in TWA was instrumental in TWA's purchase and operation of Lockheed Constellations prior to the age of jetliners. Roger Kelley #2112 ***************************************************************** From Warren Lambing Ok it was TWA, and it would appear that they had good working relationship with Lockheed Here is a URL http://users.erols.com/dbarrese/twa.htm I should have look first. Regards. Warren ****************************************************************** From Marilyn Pollock Howard Hughes did not own Pan Am He owned TWA back in the '50s. Marilyn (#1238) ****************************************************************** From Bob Sherman Ric: >Hughes did not own either Lockheed or Pan Am. *** Howard was friendly with Jack Fry, TWA's # 4 pilot, with a seniority date of 11-26-27, and pres. of TWA after the airmail fiasco shake out. Jack was having trouble with his board of directors over an unusual problem. Losses, the need for new aircraft, and ambitious expansion plans.... He jawed with Howard over the situation, incl. the need for the new Boeing pressurized Stratoliner [looked like a B-17], and international routes. Howard was interested, began buying stock and in early '39, with 47% of the stock in his pocket, Howard 'owned' TWA. [via Hughes Tool co.] He and Jack had a great deal to do with the specs of the first '049' Connie, and the two of them made a record BUR to DCA flt. with the first one. In 1947 he dismised Frye. Ca late '60', Hughes got in trouble with his desire to eat his cake and keep it too. The bankers that he had humiliated earlier by making them sign a deal in the mens room in the wee hours, forced him to sell his stock in TWA. [at about 82 .. he paid 3 to 7 for it.] RC > From Margot Still > > UM, RICHARD, ARE YOU SURE ABOUT HUGHES NOT OWNING Howard Hughes was friendly with Jack Frye, a twa pilot and it's president in the time of A.E. Jack finally got Howard interested and in April of 1939 Howards 'Tool Co.' had 46% of TWA's stock. He then owned TWA. Jack and Howard had a great deal to do with the spec's and the developement of the Lockheed Constellation. The two of them flew the first delivery [the #2 plane] to DCA in 6:58, a new transcon. record on 1-9-43. In the late 50's Howard got into financial trouble by buying jet aircraft and continuing to own assests that he could not pay for, nor was he willing to part with any. TWA was put in a voting trust and by 1960, owning 78% of the stock, Howard was forced out. He sold the stock for a huge profit but agonized over losing TWA. RC 943 ret. TWA ****************************************************************** From Jim Tierney Ric-To answer your question--- HH never owned Pan AM--He and Juan Trippe didnt like each other... HH did own TWA for a time and of course- with his unusual management style -almost ruined it..... Jim Tierney ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:23:41 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howared Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt > >From Ric > > No. Hughes did not own either Lockheed or Pan Am. I'd frankly be surprised >if an aviator of Hughes' ability paid any attention at all to the Earhart flight. I'd be surprised if he didn't! Any trip over that much water involves considering all possibilities. Th' WOMBAT ****************************************************************** From Ric Well, there's probably not much mileage in debating what Howard Hughes would or would not have been interested in. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:28:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Longs vs. Itasca's Radio Logs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janet Whitney Are we missing something, or are the Longs being selective in their interpretation of what times the Itasca radioed Earhart on July 2nd? (see Chapter 13 of "The Mystery Solved.") It appears that when Earhart radioed at 15:15 GMT on July 2nd that she "will listen on hour and half hour on 3105 KC," the Itasca responded by attemping to contact Earhart by voice on the hour and half-hour GMT, and also on "Itasca time", and at many other times before the final transmission the Itasca heard from Earhart at 20:14 GMT on 3105 KC. Janet Whitney ***************************************************************** From Ric Before long we hope to have up on the TIGHAR website - PDF files showing the original Itasca logs - line by line translations of the radio operator's shorthand for each entry - a plain English entry by entry narrative of what was going on. That should greatly facilitate debate. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:32:42 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on coral reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ross Devitt > >From Ric > > The clearing was probably done in early November 1940 and we know that >there was very heavy weather, almost certainly accompanied by heavy rains, in >late November through December. The photo was taken the following June, so >that part fits your theory. Still only theory.. I'll dig up some documented stuff on the damage here and regeneration times. There's a lot of it around if I can find it.. If I remember correctly, once the vegetation has gone, if the fresh water flow continues some of the coral does not regenerate. HOWEVER, this is from memory, so I may be barking up the wrong coconut palm... and therefore leading us all astray. If I'm correct though, it makes more sense than an oil or fuel spill in that spot of that magnitude. Th' WOMBAT **************************************************************** From Ric The other thing is, as far as I know, the coral on the reef flat is already dead. That's why I lean toward the white mark being nothing more than sand that has been washed down and out onto the flat. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:36:14 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Antoine St.Ex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Christian Moin Ric On Sunday evening there was an all evening special on the german TV channel ARTE on the 100th birthday of Antoine St. Exupery (Hope to have typed him correct). It consisted of three films. The first was a mixture of historical documents and an actors play to show the hero respect. The second part was a documentation of the search for his plane, filled up with a lot of pictures from his last day when he was accompanied by a fotografing reporter right until the stripping in to his last flight. The search has to overcome a problem quite different from ours: We search for a plane in an environment where there is no other plane for miles. The searchers for St.Ex. have to inspect a lot of wrecks to find out which one is which for in that region of the mediterranean there are literally dozens of wrecks and not a small number of them are P-38. But I got the feeling the search is done mostly by 1.charter a ship, 2.Jump into water 3. no recce P-38, 4. forget it. No mentions of all the archives- and paper-work I would have thought to be necessary. And by far not the Tighar-Way. Third movie was a pure actors-piece resembling his life, women and so on. LTM and a good 4th July Christian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:37:36 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Coast Guard Buttons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Dillard Gates wrote, It seems to me that the researchers on this project are approaching the job with little understanding of the scientific method. The scientific method would aim at trying to identify and explain the artifacts rather than trying to prove a preexisting notion. ========= Actually, the scientific method would not try to identify and explain the artifacts, unless one were doing a scientific analysis of, say, buttons for their own sake. The scientific method would generate hypotheses and try to test them, using whatever data it could lay its hands on -- such as artifacts. That's what we're trying to do the Nikumaroro hypothesis. It's a preexisting notion, as is any hypothesis, but we're trying to test it, not prove it. LTM (whose son is, admittedly, only a SOCIAL scientist) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:46:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Button, button. Whose got the button? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chuck Boyle Ric, The response copied below is from Al Hall who was stationed on Canton with the AAF during and or after WW2. Lee (Chuck) Boyle 2060 "The buttons look like many others that were used in the 30's and 40's according to my expert seamstress wife. Navy and Coast Guard folks on Canton used old Army khaki pants and cut the legs off. Definitely not "Issue". Some of us got caught wearing these during an Inspection by a Navy Admiral when he came to Canton. We also cut off legs of Navy blue jeans. I vaguely remember similar buttons on the front of the boxer Navy shorts. But the examples shown don't really ring a bell with me. Sorry." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:57:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on coral reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Re. Th' Wombat's hypothesis: if clearing-induced runoff caused the marks (very reasonable, and consistent with Th' Ric's hypothesis), then I should think we ought to see something similar on the reef adjacent to Ameriki after the Loran Station was put in. How's our coverage of that area, Ric? LTM (who appreciates running off) TK ***************************************************************** From Ric Hard to say. We have one photo that shows the Loran station just about the time the construction work was completed (September 1944). They've bulldozed the bejesus out of the that end of the island, the antenna towers are up, the quonsets are in place, but the engineers little tent city is still in place near the beach. The reef flat just offshore the cleared area looks generally lighter in color than it does offshore the uncleared areas but there has been so much clearing that it's hard to tell whether the lighter color is anomalous or just a natural variation in the rreef color in that area. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:59:34 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: PAM AM & HOWARD HUGHES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Margot Still OK, OK, OK. Margot stepped in it BIG TIME. So I confused PAN AM with TWA. My brain was cluttered with lots of useless information at the time. I knew that, really I did. Here's an interesting bit of worthless trivia in my head. While researching the B-23 in Idaho, I discovered the first plane to have a phone installed in it was a B-23 owned by none other than Howard Hughes. While not related to any current discussion on the FORUM, it is none the less an interesting fact. LTM, (who overlooks cluttered brains from time to time) MStill #2332 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:03:04 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jim Duffy It appears that we have thoroughly researched and exhausted the TWA-Howard Hughes connection, but please permit me to correct one last mis-impression that was raised. The name, TWA, has nothing to do with "one-upmanship" toward Pan Am. It comes from the original name, Transcontinental & Western Airlines, which was changed to Trans World Airlines when the company moved from being a strictly domestic airline when the CAB, and the countries involved, approved international routes for them. Jim Duffy ****************************************************************** From Ric And before Transcontinental merged with Western it was known as Transcontinental Air Transport or T.A.T. (popularly said to stand for Take A Train). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:04:38 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: marks on coral reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Ric sez: The other thing is, as far as I know, the coral on the reef flat is already dead. That's why I lean toward the white mark being nothing more than sand that has been washed down and out onto the flat. But on most reef flats it gets liver (that is, more live, like higher proportion of live coral to dead) as you get closer to the reef edge. That might be why the mark is rather more obvious farther out on the flat. LTM (and her liver) TK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:07:31 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Button, button. Whose got the button? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Seems like everything about the button is comming back that it dates from the '30s/'40s, and I find it interesting that all the seamstresses can actually date the button (I wonder what it is about it that makes it distinctive to this time period---can the people who are doing this work explain this further?). Also, it seems like everything else at the site we've discussed thus far is comming back from the same time period. Assuming this holds, perhaps a tentative conclusion we can make is that the site saw no activity after this time period, even though the island was occupied up to the early '60s (after all, people didn't stop losing things or dumping things after the '30s/'40s). This gives some credence to the notion that this may have been a "special purpose" site. --Chris Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:51:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: mark on the reef MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Andrew McKenna How's this for an idea Wasn't there a piece of screen found at the 7 site near the water tank? So, Gallagher digs up the skull, and during the intensive search, he thinks there might be more bones in the hole so he digs further into it, and sifts this sand in the surf through a washing box with a screen bottom to separate the bone sized stuff from the fine grained sand. This fine grained material is then washed out over the intertidal coral in a thin bed visible from above in air photos, but only for a while, until it finds a better resting place farther out or back on the beach. Its a long shot, I know, but.... Let me guess, you are going to tell me that the screen is too fine meshed to sift the sand. LTM (who hates using washing boxes...) Andrew McKenna **************************************************************** From Ric Now THAT'S what I call an efficient forum posting. The answer is provided with the question. Yeah, the screen is very fine and the material in the hole is mostly finger-sized chunks of coral rubble. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:17:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From William Webster-Garman With all due respect and courtesy to Jim Duffy, I stand by my statement that the name "Trans World" was a derivative and one-upmanship of Pan Am's name. The use of the word "Transcontinental" in the name of one of the firm's forerunners was almost certainly an opportunity and inspiration to use that particular latin root in a new name that would "transcend" the Pan Am moniker. The talented Mr. Hughes was well known for very carefully choosing what he believed to be effective and generic-sounding names for his businesses. william 2243 ****************************************************************** From Ric If this was worth pursuing, and if I were Mr. Duffy, I'd be trying to establish that the name change happened before Hughes became involved with the company. If I were Mr. Webster-Garman I'd try to eatblish the converse and, ideally, come up with a company memo from Hughes directing the change and specifically mentioning his rationale. Otherwise, we're just debating the mental processes of Howard Hughes - a dicey endeavor if there ever was one. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:36:19 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Noonan Project possible lead? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Porter Ric, I've been slogging my way through forum digests to catch up from being away on military duty for the last couple weeks, and though I'm not completely caught up yet, wanted to toss in my usual two cents worth. First off, I hope your mother is doing better. Mine had a stroke while I was away at the Benning School for Boys, and is recovering now, but it made for a few nights even more sleepless than those normally experienced by Army Drill Sergeants. (rest easy America: your sons in the infantry are not being overly stressed, nor is their self esteem being damaged--so long as we can manage to stay out of a shootin' war, everything will be just fine) Re: Ron Dawson and the Noonan Project: Here in the Detroit area there is a Noonan Pontiac auto dealership that is actually operated by folks named Noonan. Since it'd be a local call for me I'd be happy to make an inquiry--just give me some command guidance into how such things are done. LTM, who is happy to learn that "Survivor" does NOT have the "aye" of the TIGHAR. Dave Porter, 2288 ****************************************************************** From Ric The "aye" of the TIGHAR? Clever. Noonan is actually a fairly common Irish name, but no harm in asking. I'd just call up, ask for Mr. (or MS.) Noonan and explain that you're a member of an aviation historical group researching the Amelia Earhart disppearance and wondered if there was any chance her navigator, Fred Noonan, was a relative. What you do next, of course, depends upon the response but the first step is to just up and ask. LTM, Ric (who remembers the "old program" at the Benning School for Boys) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:41:36 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: THE button MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dave Porter Ric, All caught up on forum digests now. D'ya suppose Ike had to fill out an Environmental Impact Statement form for the Normandy invasion? Was unable to access the TIGHAR website to check out the "7" site bulletin, at approx. 12:30am, Thu. 6 July. Hope all's well at TIGHAR Central, will try again tomorrow. Re: the button, is there a Coast Guard Museum somewhere that might have examples of period uniforms someone could look at? The Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning has many old uniforms on display, some dating back much further than the 1930's. If the Coasties have something similar somewhere, maybe the button can be definitively identified. For Dennis: what caliber of shell do you suppose could account for the 1/8" drill bit holes in the green plastic army men of my mis-spent youth? LTM, who says maybe the man from the BUTTONWOOD lost the button. Dave Porter, 2288 ***************************************************************** From Ric Anybody know if the Coast Guard has a museum with old uniforms? They have a fairly informal "Radio Museum" at Cape May, NJ which we have used to some benefit, but I saw no old uniforms there. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:04:58 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Welcome to aw-waw lah-bore-a-tory . . . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Dennis McGee Jonathan Einarsen said: "Preaching to the choir gets you nowhere, saves no new souls, and is neither fun nor challenging. Actually, just the opposite is true. Preaching to the choir is very satisfying: everyone knows the words and they all can hum the melody. Plus, as "true believers," we don't need to be saved. The fun comes from harassing new choir members by sending them out on useless missions such as looking for a muffler belt for the car, searching for a burn-bag stretcher, or hunting down a two-legged milking stool. Welcome aboard Jonathan and we sincerely look forward to anything you can contribute to this effort. Just remember to wear your helmet and flak jacket at all times, and, Hey!, let's be careful out there. LTM, who is no longer a rookie :-) Dennis O. McGee #0149CE ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:06:41 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: THE button MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Ric, USCG has a museum at New London, CT - info at their website (reference below) http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/museum/muse_info.html I didn't take time to look through their "images" section, so I don't know what pix are on line, but it might be a source. ltm, jon 2266 ***************************************************************** From Ric Wow, that was fast. Thanks Jon. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:12:20 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Pat has the helm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ric I'm off to Idaho for the TIGHAR Aviation Archaelogy Course and Training Expedition. Assuming I survive the experience, I'll be back on duty Monday July 17. Until then, Pat will moderate the forum so, be nice. You know the old saying: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:13:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Button/Noonan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From JHam 2128 re various. Button - FYI, I emailed the Coast Guard's historical group, via their web site, asking about uniforms and museums. I'll let you know what they say. Motor City Noonans - if they say they are related, which every Noonan I've talked with has, email me (jham@mindspring.com) and I'll give you the info to find out if they really are. I've eliminated about 10 "sure" relations so far. blue skies, -jerry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:17:59 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: THE button MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Paul Chattey The Coast Guard does have an informal museum at Pier 36 in Seattle with a few display cases of dress uniforms, lots of photos, and interesting bits of ships. They are staffed by very helpful retired Coasties who come in on an understandably occasional basis. I've made inquiries to find a phone #, as their hours are somewhat limited. I don't know if their collection includes fatigues & work clothing (enlisted and officers') from "our" period or if they have access to folks who might still have these items of clothing but will ask. Best thing I can think of is to ask if they have any clothing issued in WWII with buttons of size and color that match our artifact. Is the description on the web site? In case anyone wants to pursue a wider perspective, the USCG Historian's office in Washington DC is at 2100 2nd street, 20593-0001, phone numbers are (202) 267-0948, -2596, and -2172. Calling first to make an appointment is generally a very good idea before showing up. They're open M-F from 7:00 to 4:30. Their web site is at: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/aboutoffice.html . Paul **************************************************************** From Ric There are two photos (front and back) with scales on the website at http://www.tighar.org/Projects/help4_19/help4_19.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:42:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Whose button is it, anyway? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright Ric/Pat I'm lost now re button button stuff, but has anyone gone in reverse. I'm guessing the theory is that the button belongs to the castaway. So has anyone gone to the AE museum in Atchinson (?) or at Purdue University, who have some clothes (and by the way shoes (size ?) for comparison. There must be other resources,relatives,etc on AE's side or photos of AE's ubiquitous shirt. What was she wearing when she left Lae? LTM Ron Bright 2342 **************************** From Pat Purdue has some articles of clothing, including at least one pair of slacks, in their collection of Earhart memorabilia. I dunno who has what else. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:43:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: THE button MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Re. Coast Guard museums, the CG web site at http://www.uscg.mil/search/query.idq?CiRestriction=museum&CiScope=%2F&CiMaxRec ordsPerPage=20&TemplateName=query&CiSort=rank%5Bd%5D&HTMLQueryForm=%2Fsearch%2 Fsearch.html (YES!) indicates they have quite a few. This would seem like the place to start looking, if somebody's inclined to. LTM (who appreciates short, snappy URLs) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:44:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From William Webster-Garman Ric wrote, If this was worth pursuing... Otherwise, we're just debating the mental processes of Howard Hughes - a dicey endeavor if there ever was one. ---------------------------- Very true. Frankly, although I stand by my recollection, I don't think the subject is worth it (to me) to spend the time documenting it. The key words in Ric's reply were "If this was worth pursuing"... If this was Earhart related and I felt that something important was being missed, I'd probably feel differently. william 2243 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:45:20 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jim Duffy OK, Ric, here's the chronology: Howard Hughes began buying into TWA in late 1939 and acquired control in early 1940. He never had an official position or title, but he remained in control for 25 years. He liquidated his holdings on May 3, 1965. The name was changed to Trans World Airlines in 1950, although it had flown it's first trans-Atlantic flight {from New York to Paris via Gander and Shannon in a Lockheed Constellation} in 1946. The name change was slow and gradual and the new corporate name didn't become official until 1950. Ric, your TAT {Take A Train} reference reminded me that in in October of 1995 TWA flew Pope John Paul II from Newark to Rome in a specially-configured Boeing 767-300 during which TWA became "Travel With the Angels." Jim Duffy P.S. Can we now get back to "The Perils of AE & FN" ?. ******************************** Yup. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:48:32 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Bob Sherman It is seldom that both in an argument can be correct. Here is a case. From Jim Duffy: >The name, TWA, has nothing to do with "one-upmanship" toward Pan Am. It >comes from the original name, Transcontinental & Western Airlines, which was >changed to Trans World Airlines when the company moved from being a strictly >domestic airline when the CAB, and the countries involved, approved >international routes for them. From William Webster-Garman: >With all due respect and courtesy to Jim Duffy, I stand by my statement that >the name "Trans World" was a derivative and one-upmanship of Pan Am's name. >[almost certainly named by Howard Hughes] *** The name, Transcontinental & Western Air [express] was with TWA until sometime between 1943 & 1945, when the corporate name was changed to Trans World Airline. [no s on airline, it was added later.] The CAB gave TWA temporary international approval on July 5, 1945; dated pictures of Connies as early as December 3, 1945 have the name. TRANS WORLD AIRLINE on the fuselage. Although there are a few undated pictures of DC-4's probably before 1945 with the above name. Howard Hughes gained control of TWA in April 1939, and remained in control thru the 1950's Ergo he was in control a few years before the subject name change, and very likely approved of the name, whether or not it was his invention. RC ************************** And that's the last word on Mr. Hughes and TWA. Th-th-th-that's all, folks! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:40:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: American Heritage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Dawson In the latest issue of Forbe's American Heritage Magazine, the theme is a long list of 'Most overated' and Most Underated' individuals. Guess who gets the nod for Most Overated Aviatrix. It is followed with a paragraph which portrays AE as a mindless robot and GP as the ultimate Svengali. The Most Underated Aviatrix is listed as Harriet Quimby. Smooth Sailing, Ron Dawson 2126 ***************************** Yeah, we saw that. They should have talked to us..... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:42:08 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: light bulbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Renaud bonjour everyone ! Nice to be back ! I've been missing for one month, so i've somewhat lost sight of today's forum subjects. Now, for what is worth... I've thrown a glance to the artifacts found. the photographs of the "light bulb" ( 2-3-W-3 ) struck me... I catched and removed the lamp from my desk... same bulb ! "bayonet" also, the bottom connectors have the same shape ( elliptical ) and same size ! For me, there is no doubt : your artifact is an european light bulb from a lamp. That is still very widely spreaded in France. I dunno if you have the same in USA... Is the "ceramic material" could be a part of a lamp which owned the bulb ? ****************************** We've got someone looking at that... help? I've been kinda out of the loop. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:42:44 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Whose button is it, anyway? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Last I heard, the plan was that if it didn't look like the button could be accounted for by a Coast Guard or other obvious source, Ric was going to ask Gary Quigg, who lives not far from Purdue, to see what was buttoned up there. LTM (who's buttoned down) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:43:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Howard Hughes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Herman De Wulf I think the whole TWA story has already been explained by aviation historians and aviation authors. One is Robert Serling, who wrote "Howard Hughes' Airline". For those interested in AE, it may be interesting to know there is an association betweenAE and TWA. At least, she worked for the TWA predecessor company TAT (Transontinental Air Transport). This company was incorporated on May 16, 1928 and became known as 'the Lindbergh Airline" since TAT hired Lindbergh. He was chairman of the technical committee at an annual salary of $ 10,000 plus a gift of 25,000 shares of stock in the company. By the way, the stock, valued at $ 20 a share at the start, went up 10 points when the Lindbergh connection was made public. Lindbergh was not the only prominent name connected with the airline. So was Amelia Earhart. But AE never played the technical role Lindbergh played in the TWA predecessor airline. This is what Robert Serling writes about her Amelia Earhart at TAT : "She was appointed "assistant to the general traffic manage", although her job tenure was short-lived and her duties predictably vague. Her chief task seems to have been the christening of a Ford Trimotor on static display at New York's Penn Station although TAT publicity releases claimed she had been hired to develop interest in air travel among women". ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:45:58 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Secret Navy files reveal AE on spy mission to Truk,says ex petty officer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright I"d like to revisit an off forum discussion concerning the possiblity of Navy files still extant at Crane Indiana. Brink's book "Lost Star" ,page 173-4 ,relates the recollections of Carrol F.Harris, a former navy photographer,and then a retired CHP officer, who in interviews in 1983, recalled seeing secret ONI files from a 4 drawer cabinet that clearly indicated AE was on a spy mission,i.e.,changes in the Electra's structure, intended flyover Truk, the installation of two Fairchild aerial cameras in the lower fuselage bay, the addition of two, more powerful Bendix radios,etc. All of which if true would substantially change the perspective of Amelia's flight. Harris told Brink he was assigned to Flag Secretary Admiral J.R. Smedberg and was directed to photograph (microfilm) the records in "OP-20G" and "ONI OP-16" files and that the Earhart files occupied "3/4 of a file cabinet". These files were located in ADM Smedberg's office in room 2052 of the old Navy Dept building on Constitution Ave. The files were "Top Secret" then. Note: Brink does not indicate when(what year) Harris microfilmed the files,whether there were witnesses to this event, where he stored them and whether Harris had mentioned this activity,apparently in the 40s , to anyone before and why and how Harris now (in 1983) was coming forward with these ancedotal recollections. But upon further investigation, there may be some truth in Harris' report. Former ONI officials that I know recall Earhart files in a four drawer cabinet as late as 1966 at Arlington,Va but believed they had been archived; they did not think there was any significant information relating to the Earhart mystery,only files relating to ONI's investigation into her disappearance. (The Agent Patton investigation in 1960 at Saipan). But this is just a guess of where the files went and as of this date I haven't pursued further this link. Addiltonallly , those files may not be the files that Harris was referring to. But here is where it gets interesting, I interviewed Barbara Harris,age 70s,still in California,who advised that her husband Carrol F. Harris, was indeed the Harris that provided Brink with his recollections in 1983. She said her husband retired from the California State Patrol in 1984 and died at age 64 in 1986. Harris, she said, was on active duty with the US Navy from 1941-47, then served in the active reserve until 1980. Barabara recalled that sometime in the 60s Carrol became acquainted with Fred Goerner,then in San Francisco, and subsequently became "good friends" over thier mutual interest in the Earhart mystery. Barbara said she learned the following from Carrol: In the mid-40s or thereabouts, Carrol was assigned duty as a yeoman in the Navy and his assignment was in the "mail room" of the White House doing work for the Navy.(FDR was Pres) During this period he was given a high security clearance and was assigned to microfilm some Earhart documents in a file cabinet with "Top Secret" Earhart material. Some of the files related to the installation of efquipment,radios,cameras into the AE's airplane.Harris related this information to Goerner and to Brink. Barbara said she was not particularily interested in the Earhart story so these recollections are vague (and of course hearsay). She was not sure exactly where Harris was assigned to the "White House" (Brink says it was the Old Navy Building).She met and married Harris years later while attending college. Barbara said that there are still some boxes of momentos etc in her house but has not gone through them searching for Earhart documents, Carrol's diaries,etc. Barabara said that based on what Carrol told her she thought those files that he was referring to went to Crane Indiana for archive purposes. (Goerner did follow some of those leads but struck out) Barabara agreed to additional interviews if she could be helpful and would search her files for Carrols material if any.She was quite responsive and seemed to be competent. She said Carrol was a respected CHP officer and credible. Another researcherand correspondent of mine, Doug Hubbard Sr.,founding father of the Nimitz Museum, became good friends with Fred Goerner and thus was instrumental in getting Fred upon his death to donate his material to that museum. According to Hubbard, Goerner was aware of the Harris story but thought that Harris was on guard duty in the office of the CNO and that one night he and some others got into a file cabinet with one drawer devoted to AE. This material was sent to Crane for storage and declassification. Hubbard has a copy of a letter from Casper Weinberger,SECDEF,in which Weinberger said it would take about 9 years to get to those files for declassification (about now). Comments: As luck would have it the primary source,Harris, is deceased and it is doubtful any of his records will be found. Nevertheless, it may be possible to prove or disprove the AE secret mission files but locating those files at Crane Indiana.In my opinion, they may not be Navy files since Harris was talking about the White House mail (or map) room.Obviously, if Harris' recollections are accuate, and according to Barbara, he had a "photographic" memory, it would cause quite a stir among AE researchers. Maybe Randy Jacobsen, who has searched Crane, could help.I know your friend ex Marine officer Jack Hillard agrees that the ONI files did not contain any solutions to her disappearnce or confirm any covert,secret mission stuff re Amelia's flight,but that doesn't mean the files Harris talked about are one and the same. Harris' recollections have a ring of truth and detail that a CHP officer offered for the truthof the matter. That's pretty good evidence,but of course not sworn testimony, and not corroborated. I'll keep on trying to see if the Harris story is true,false or simply a mistaken belief. LTM, Ron Bright( who probably got a ticket from Harris when living in Cal) *************************************** Well, I guess you know what our opinion is..... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:48:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Ebay photo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Robert Heine I'm not sure how often any TIGHAR'S check ebay, but there is a photo for sale right now that shows the interior of the electra, including many instruments on the panel. You can see the edge of a fuel tank on the left side, and it is interesting to note that the photographer had to be back further in the fuse to take the photo, implying that there was room to get to the back of the plane without using a pole to pass notes. Here is the info on the photo including the sellers comments. Of course, you may already have a copy of this, but I remember comments that interior photos during the last flight were few and far between. -Robert Heine VINTAGE AMELIA EARHART PHOTOGRAPH 1937 Item #370169510 PHOTOGRAPH OF AMELIA EARHART IN THE COCKPIT OF HER LOCKHEED ELECTRA TAKEN JUST BEFORE HER 'LAST FLIGHT' IN 1937 FROM WHICH SHE NEVER RETURNED...IMAGE IS 7 1/2 BY 9 1/2" MOUNTED ON 11 BY 14" MAT...THIS IS AN ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN BY EARHARTS ONLY AUTHORIZE PHOTAGRAPHER ALBERT BRESNIK...HIS NAME IS EMBOSSED IN LOWER LEFT CORNER OF PHOTO AND HE HAS SIGNED THE MAT...ON REVERSE IS ATTACHED PHOTOCOPY OF HIS STATEMENT OF AUTHENTICITY REGARDING THIS PHOTO AND HIS STATUS AS EARHARTS PHOTAGRAPHER...HE WAS ACTUALLY SLATED TO GO ON THE WORLD TRIP WITH A.E....BUT AT LAST MINUTE DID NOT...YOU CAN SEE THE EDGE OF THE LONG RANGE GAS TANKS IN PHOTO...WHEN I OBTAINED THIS PHOTO FROM BRESNIK YEARS AGO HE STATED THAT IT WAS THE LAST OF THIS PARTICULAR IMAGE HE HAD AVAILABLE...AND SINCE HIS DEATH CERTAINLY THE LAST SIGNED BY HIM...RARE AND VALUABLE AMELIA EARHART IMAGE... ******************************** We have at least contact prints if not full sized prints of all of Bresnik's photos. The bit about him being slated to go along is not true..... P ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:15:43 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: TIGHAR website housekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Pat: This is the only Forum message I will send out today. I've been tidying up the TIGHAR website, updating things, deleting old stuff, and so on. I have also done some reorganization that makes it easier for me to keep track of. Because of this, if you have pages bookmarked in your browser, those bookmarks may not work. Don't panic! Everything important is still there. Just go to the home page (www.tighar.org) and click through on each link until you get to where you want to go, and then make a new bookmark. I have mounted the new Earhart Project Bulletin, "Landing on the Reef." To go there directly, go to http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Bulletins/ArchivedBulletins.html and click on the first link. Please let me know immediately if any link is not working or you see anything funky that I've missed. LTM, Pat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:18:58 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: E-bay photo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Chris Kennedy Just to be certain it might be worth double checking the ebay picture to make sure we've got it, and, if we do, that it doesn't show anything else (perhaps our's was cropped differently). Sorry to pester.... --Chris ****************************************** What we have is a sheet produced by Bresnik of each of the photos he took--it's a sales piece, he was selling prints off the original negs. That's probably what someone has. But if someone wants to go take a look and maybe send me a jpeg, I'll compare it to what we have. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:20:28 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Lightbulbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King It COULD be part of the lamp, but it may not even be ceramic. Right now we have Nancy Farrell, a Pacific archeological shell expert, looking at it to see if maybe it's a piece of a prehistoric shell ornament -- which it looks a lot like to me. Welcome back, Reynaud Tom KIng ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:21:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Secret Navy files reveal AE on spy mission to Truk,says ex petty officer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson I tried to get into Crane, IN files, but was told that they would be transferred to National Archives shortly (that was back in 1995 or so). NARA has received the files, and is working on declassifying them. When last I checked, late last year, they were still not available to researchers. My information indicates that what was at Crane were the copies of all radiotelegrams throughout all the Navy, and not ONI files per se. Strangely, ONI files on AE are at NARA, and are quite innocuous. Other ONI files on (barely) related subjects are similarly innocuous, as Op18G at that time was largely a hollow structure, and well undermanned. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:22:06 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: AE & TWZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag Sounds like AE was the beneficiary of some corporate welfare at TWA. Doug Brutlag #2335 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:23:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: American Heritage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From William Webster-Garman Ron Dawson noted (re Forbes magazine)... >>>>It is followed with a paragraph which portrays AE as a mindless robot and GP as the ultimate Svengali. -------------------------- As usual, the truth is somehwere in the middle, between the old myth and Forbes' latest attempt to sell interesting magazines. william 2243 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:24:29 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Lightbulbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Christian D. To Renaud: Hi! I think one of the unanswered questions is the material of the bulb base. I think Ric was leaning toward copper (really red in color).... Have you ever seen a bayonet lamp base made of copper? Or are they all made of (yellow) brass, nowadays??? How about in the '30s? Could they have been made out of copper then? Cheers. Christian D. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:25:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Article on Kanton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John D. hi pat im the guy that did his typing in caps at one time thanks to you ichanged can you tell me what month the ocean navigator had the article on kanton i tried several book stores here with no success thanks john d ************************* Can someone help John out? Randy? And where one could get a copy? P ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:41:40 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Light bulb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Charles LIm The item is a colonial light bulb. The features are almost identical to its modern day counterpart. As for the ceramic bit, the last time I was around, I guessed that it was part of some light fixture just by looking at the item and trying to 'trace' (Tracing work done by Tom King) certain physical features that were visible from the photos on Tighar's web page. I haven't a clue what the material is. If it is man made it is a ceramic. Otherwise it is ground shell, which is something I've never seen. A ceramic material will lend itself to the fact that it was probably manufactured. Other than that I also said that the type of the material was the key to finding out what this piece is, so I'm waiting for what the experts have to say first. Charles Lim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:35:57 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: e-bay photo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Pat, I was discussing this with Ric before he went on TDY - I sent him the address, but I don't know if he got it in time to look before he left. If not, I captured a copy I can send you from home. It's pretty out of focus. ltm jon 2266 ************************* Thanks, Jon, I think he did look at it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:37:55 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Secret Navy files reveal AE on spy mission to Truk,says ex petty officer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Ron Bright For Randy Jacobsen, Does that mean that we are still waiting declassification of these ONI files sometime in 2000 ? That's consistant with Weinbergers reply to Goerner. How does your source know that the classified files contain only navy radiotelegrams ? So I guess we just have to wait. Its hard to believe that a guy like Carrol F. Harris would conjure up pure baloney for the Earhart research with such tantalizing recollections but maybe he became influenced by Goerner's thoery. I'm going to pursue for a bit. My guess is Harris saw proposed intelligence opportunities prior to the flight but never implemented. ONI was busy then with what was going on with the Japanese buildup in the mandated islands, so not too far fetched. LTM, Ron Bright ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:39:17 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Lightbulbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Renaud, As i am writing this, i have, on my desk, a 240 volt and 40 watt lamp bulb which is clearly made of copper. The color, and the smell ( !!! ) make me think definitively that it is copper made. Bayonet setting was common in the 1920's ( different kind of bayonet lamps are shown in an encyclopedia that was printed in 1923 ). One has got a very similar base than the artifact from TIGHAR. From this, it seems to me that a copper made bayonet bulb base in the '30s is not unlikely... LTM ( who has always a bright lamp on her desk )... PS: I forgot this. Could the "seven" marking at the "seven site" be what left of foundations of walls ? Villas from the antic Rome era were discovered in the middle of fields by this way... *********************** Walls? I don't think so. Tom? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:41:37 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Help urgently needed in New Zealand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Our search for the bones found on Nikumaroro in 1940 has hit a series of dead ends -- literally dead, in that most of the people involved in the discovery are now precisely that. The documentary record stops in 1941 -- at which time the bones were being held by Dr. D.W. Hoodless of the Central Medical School pending further direction from the High Commissioner. We've heard a couple of times, though, about a John Eric Pery-Johnston, who was the Pathology Laboratory Technician at the time, and who might still be alive, probably in New Zealand. Today I got a letter from Sir Ian Thomson, who was Aide-de-Camp to High Commissioner Sir Harry Luke, and who has particularly urged us to pursue Pery-Johnston as the person most likely to know what happened to the bones. Sir Ian gives us a lot more particulars, to wit: Name: John Eric Pery-Johnston Born 1912 Diploma in Pathology and Bacteriology in the New Zealand State Health Department Married Technician in the Pathology Laboratory in Fiji in 1940-41 A couple of efforts to find Pery-Johnston in New Zealand in the past have failed, but we've never had this much information before. Volunteers???? LTM Tom King ************************************ A call to arms....... We do have at least one member in NZ, the chap who found the file in Tarawa. He is back in NZ writing the book he was doing research for. Peter MacQuarrie. I will dig up his email address for you, Tom. P ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:58:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Walls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King For Reynaud: I don't think walls are a likely explanation for the "Seven." In prehistoric times there were walled structures in this part of Oceania, in fact as close as Hull Island, but they're quite visible as such on the surface -- not like buried Roman ruins that can be seen only from the air by the patterns they cause in vegetation growth. The same goes for walled structures built by guano miners in the 19th century -- some of which we recorded on McKean Island. On the other hand, the linearity of the "Seven" is very peculiar, and if the "ceramic" artifact turns out to be part of a prehistoric shell ornament, it could indicate that some kind of prehistoric structure caused the strange vegetation growth. It's certainly worth keeping in mind as a possibility. LTM (who's pretty prehistoric) Tom KIng ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:59:58 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Secret Navy files reveal AE on spy mission to Truk,says ex petty officer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Randy Jacobson When I called Crane to discuss AE stuff, I was aware that they archived all radio message traffic from 1937. I did not inquire about other materials, as I was lead to believe from the Master Sargeant there that all they had was radio message traffic from that era. He may have been wrong about that. There may be some early ONI- related material about radio traffic interceptions from the Japanese, but I doubt seriously that ONI HQ material would be transferred there. One can look at available ONI material to discern whether there is other material (references, etc.) that may be classified, but my perusal of ONI papers indicates that all HQ stuff has been declassified and archived at NARA already. Now, I may be wrong (it has happened it the past, but only according to my wife...). > From Ron Bright > > For Randy Jacobsen, > > Does that mean that we are still waiting declassification of these ONI files > sometime in 2000 ? That's consistant with Weinbergers reply to Goerner. How > does your source know that the classified files contain only navy > radiotelegrams ? So I guess we just have to wait. ..... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:01:16 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Help urgently needed in New Zealand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janice Brown I hope you don't mind if I jump in here. I'm new to your forum. I'm enrolled in a continuing education class in Manchester, New Hampshire USA and am doing a research paper on AE. I was born a few years after Amelia died, and knew very little about her story before I began my research. I joined this forum to learn more. I saw your post about the search for John Eric Pery-Johnston. It is an unusual name certainly, so I did a quick internet search. I don't know if the following will be useful to you, but if someone is willing to contact the person below, the name is odd enough that you may discover more information. On an Australia web page listing the winners of a bicycle "Duathlon" I saw (abstract): LOOK Winter Series Duathlon; Race 4 Category Results: Race 4 - September 19 1999 Venue Percival Park, Eagle Farm Brisbane Ladies 25 to 29 Inclusive 15th 13 Karen Pery-Johnston 1:18:24. 0:15:48 14 0:45:10. 14 0:17:25. Enquiries: Ray Event Management Ph: 07 3268 6665 Fax: 07 3268 7002 email: david@rayevent.com.au ---------- I further look in the Australia white pages and found the following: Data Entered: pery-johnston Queensland Capital City Residential Results: Pery-Johnston K 21 Dunella St Sherwood 4075 (07) 3278 4308 ========================= Australia is after all only a few hours away from New Zealand. If someone in your group is willing to contact Karen Pery-Johnston, she may be a relative of the person you are seeking. Janice Brown janicebr@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:45:07 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Ceramic artifact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Janice Brown If you don't mind my posting again to this forum, I was wondering about the artifacts (photo's #5 and #6). On page 110 of "Last Flight" when AE is in Karachi she decribes some of the equipment in the plane and refers to a thermos bottle (she refers to this previously also). It seemed like an item she really liked to carry coffee or hot chocolate for her flights, so she probably would have had it on her last journey. I don't know what materials the internal compartment of a thermos bottle in 1937 was made from, and you probably have already considered this, but I would wonder if it was made of ceramic? Janice Brown **************************** Janice, of course we don't mind you posting! That's sort of the point, actually . Who has the details of the Thermos research we did at their fingertips? Pat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:45:55 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: U.S. News and World Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King Apparently we're going to be the partial subjects of a piece in U.S. News and World Report, coming out Monday; they just called me to see if it was OK to call me Tom. Ric and I talked with the writer a month or so ago; I understand that it's a piece on the pursuit of historical mysteries, and we're sharing billing with -- er -- Atlantis. LTM (who thinks THAT's where AE is) Tom King ********************* Thanks for the heads up, Tom. P ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:48:25 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Cabin Window MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Pat, I happened to run across the recent posts about the removal of the cabin window prior to AE/FN's departure from Miami, and I can't recall if anyone may have thought of this, but it dawned on me that when the RTW attempt was being made westbound, an optical window would probably have been necessary in the northern side (starboard) to take sun shots, since the sun would be predominantly on that (north) side of the airplane. With the direction reversed (eastbound), it was no longer necessary to have the window since the sunshots would probably be taken from the port side (still north), and so it was skinned over. The aluminum was probably lighter than glass, and stronger to boot, which would have been added incentives. PS have you heard from Ric? How's the class going? ltm jon ************************ We also speculated that it might be a good idea for the sun not to be streaming into that cabin in the tropics.... but the point of AL being much lighter than glass is an excellent one. I heard from Ric last on Sunday night; he should call me this evening, out of the woods. The course went well, and he was pretty confident of the field school having met everyone. I'll let everyone know tomorrow. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:16:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: U.S. News and World Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Say Tom, did they have planes at Atlantis? ;-) Sorry - couldn't help myself. Do you know what the nature of the piece is supposed to be? ltm, jon 2266 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:16:49 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: Cabin Windows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Jon Watson Hi Pat, I recall that part of the discussion, too, but with the sun predominantly visible in the northern hemisphere, it seems to me that it would be streaming in more through the port side windows. I also seem to recall that Ric or someone said something about a curtain. ltm jon 2266 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:17:22 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: U.S. News and World Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Kerry Tiller Ah, so are you going to make us wait until it hits the news stands to find out if they call you Tom or not? LTM (who could never distinguish my first name from my brothers') Kerry Tiller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:18:15 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Re: U.S. News and World Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Clyde Miller Atlantis? Don't we have enough on our "Plato" already? Clyde Miller (who always believed a city state was an oxymoron) ********************************** Boy, will I be glad when Ric gets back..... Pat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:18:54 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Mystery artifact from the Seven Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Tom King I just got off the phone with Nancy Farrell, the archeological shell expert who's examined the semi-tubular fragment of whatever it is from the Seven Site. She says it is definitely NOT shell, and in her opinion is most likely porcelain. She volunteered that it looked to her like a piece of an old-fashioned light fixture. It will be back at TIGHAR Central soon, where it may be interesting to compare its arc with the circumference of the light bulb base. LTM (who sees light at the end of the tunnel) Tom King ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:19:35 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Article on Kanton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Doug Brutlag For John D. The article on Kanton that you seek is in the July/August issue of Ocean Navigator, titled "Lonely Beauty" page 42. I apologize if you already have the info. Been out of the country aviating. Just got back this evening and saw your request. Doug B. #2335 *************************** Thanks, Doug, we had not gotten the info yet. P ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:21:51 EDT Reply-To: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum Sender: The Amelia Earhart Search Forum From: "Richard E. Gillespie" Subject: Fiji MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Pat Today's Philadelphia Inquirer had a story on Fiji, and a big pic of the (former) P.M., Choudry, reunited with his family. The Great Council of Chiefs has set up a new government and elected a president. The U.S. State Department is strongly urging U.S. citizens to leave Fiji. I don't know where this will all leave the Nai'ads..... LTM, who hates political unrest Pat ==============================================================