Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:09:03 EST From: Ric Gillespie Subject: Article in new magazine From Ric Check your newsstands for the premiere issue of a new magazine called Discovering Archaeology. You'll recognize it by the headline "Amelia Earhart Found?" and the picture on the cover of the face of "Otzi the IceMan" (there's also an article about him). The feature Earhart article was written by none other than our own dogmatic camp follower and mindless automaton Dr. Tom King, Senior Archeologist for The Earhart Project. Accurate, informative and well-written text with lots of pitchers of Niku and hard working TIGHARs (and, for once, not one photo of your chest-beating moderator). I have no idea how widely distributed it will be. This is their first issue. I'd be interested to know if it's easy or hard to find. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:50:37 EST From: Carol Dow Subject: Re: Questions and Answers How does one become an Earhart Scholar? One way of doing it is to go to the Public Library and look at World Atlas books and meaure the distance between Howland Island and Gardner Island. You're going to find the distance is over 600 miles. Next.... check to see if that is statute miles or nautical miles. If Earhart's Electra had a cruising speend of 130 MPH (statute miles), Earhart would have 4-5 hours flying time to make it to Gardner Island. The length of time it woud take is prohibitive....repeat prohibitive! Consider the fact those Wasp engines of hers must have been on econony power settings which would stretch the time factor out even further. Now, scholars, I want to ask you how could a tired and probably very scared pilot and navigator take off on another adventure trying to find a second "pea-sized island in the Pacific over 600 miles from Howland? Now does that make sense to you? The first attempt obviously failed so what is the incentive to try another wild "goose" chase? I happen to be a Bonanza Pilot and have some time behind the controls, and I well know what it is to have sweat on your face and a look of fear in you fear in your eyes. Any pilot who was in the predicament AE was in would have doubled back and headed for the island chain they just flew over. They must have known there was an airstrip at Tarawa. My best guess is that is exactly what they did. Instead of chasing after fantasies on Gardner Island, if I was looking for Earhart's Electra I would be searching the Tarawa chain of Islands....and search, and search, and search. If nothing could be found I would assume she went down at sea. However, I can't believe Earhart went down at sea, she was too good of a pilot to loose her airplane in the ocean. Earhart, earlier in the flight, made a U-turn when they ran into bad weather and she probably did the same thing once it became apparent they weren't going to find Howland. In "hangar talk" it's called a 180 degree turn. Enroute Earhart flew over the Gilbert Islands (Kiribati) on course and on time on the way to Howland. Now I refuse to accept the fact they didn't head for those Islands once they knew they were in trouble. Nobody, repeat nobody wants to ditch at sea. I have a cousin who is an F-18 pilot on the Abraham Lincoln. His "fly-by-wire" system went out and his squadron leader told him to bail out. The plane went completely unstable. He refused to able and flew the plane back to dry land. Nobody, nobody wants to ditch at sea, I don't care who it is. If there is dry land close by....go for it. Also, what was wrong with Earhart's radios with all that static they encountered? VHF frequencies are static free. I have my suspicions someone was trying to jam her transmissions...like maybe the Japanese who probably would have given anything to get their hands on that airplane of hers. Earhart's Electra was all metal. The Japanese did not have an all metal twin engine plane....they were fabric. It's not so easy puting metal on ariplanes...ask the engineers at Boeing. Each rivet, each cut in the metal is critical. OK scholars, let check this out. Carol Dow ....Beardov@AOL.com (lady pilot with a few hours). If I was looking for Earhart's electra I believe I would do it with a metal detector and search, search the Gilberts. Replies anyone? *************************************************************** From Ric First I want to advise the Forum that Ms. Dow sent a similar message to me as a private email to which I replied that I was glad she had everything figured out, but that her facts were wrong, and that in 30 years of flying I had learned never to argue with a 500 hour pilot. Now she has joined the forum and submitted the above message for posting. The purpose of the forum is not only to further our research, but also to inform and educate those who share our interest but may not be aware of what we have learned so far. Ms. Dow's approach to the Earhart mystery is, unfortunately, not unusual and her posting, while perhaps a bit strident, is not overtly rude or abusive. So I will reply and hope that my comments are taken as they are intended - not to embarrass or humiliate, but to inform and educate. In order to engage in intelligent speculation about what Earhart might have done upon failing to find Howland Island, I'm sure you'd agree that it is important to have an accurate picture of the situation with which she was faced. In other words, you can't draw valid conclusions from invalid information. We know that AE left Lae with 1,100 U.S. gallons of fuel and that, according to the power and fuel management profiles prepared for her by Lockheed's Kelly Johnson, that should have given her a total endurance of 24 hours and 10 minutes. The flight to Howland was expected to take 19 hours, thus giving her the 20% (5 hour) reserve which was standard for long-distance flights. With that information in mind, the message received by the Itasca at 07:42 local time (19 hours and 12 minutes into the flight) makes perfect sense: "We must be on you but cannot see you but gas is running low. Been unable to reach you by radio. We are flying at 1,000 feet." To paraphrase, "We have come to the place where our navigation says Howland should be but we can't see the island and we have begun to burn our fuel reserve." The reason for flying at 1,000 is almost certainly to get below the base of the scattered clouds. An hour later, at 08:43 local time (20 hours and 13 minutes into the flight) Itasca hears the last message it will receive: "We are on the line 157 337. Will repeat message. We will repeat this on 6210 Kcs. Wait. We are running on north and south line." This rather clearly describes a course of action other than turning back for the Gilberts (what you call "the Tarawa chain of islands"), but would that have been a prudent course of action? Let's look at Earhart's options at that moment. Here are the facts she has to deal with: 1. As you have so correctly stated, the absolute last thing she wants to do is put this airplane in the water. 2. She has just shy of 4 hours of fuel remaining in which to find land. With that, she can cover, depending on the winds, roughly 520 nautical miles at her best economical cruising speed of 130 knots. 3. She knows that the closest island of the Gilberts (an atoll called Arorae) is 500 nautical miles away . She would have to hit it precisely starting from an unknown point. Tarawa, by the way, is 750 nautical miles and there is no airfield there or anywhwere else in the Gilberts in 1937. The only advantage to heading for the Gilberts would be that the islands were densely populated and she would be sure to be found. (Incidentally, the Gilberts were subsequently searched as part of the Navy's effort to find Earhart.) 4. She does not know where she is, but she is not totally lost either. She (well, actually Noonan) knows that they are somewhere along a line which runs 337 degrees to the northwest and 157 degrees to the southeast and passes, at some point, through Howland Island. But because they don't know where they are on the line, they don't know which way to fly along the line to reach Howland. 5. She and Noonan know that there are three other islands along that same line stretching southeastward from Howland. Baker (40 nautical miles), McKean (290 nautical miles) and Gardner, now known as Nikumaroro, which is 350 nautical miles (403 statute miles) as measured on a World Aeronautical Chart (WAC). By proceeeding southeastward along the 157 337 line (the one she said she was flying on in her last transmission) they have four opportunities (Howland, Baker Mckean and Gardner) to reach land before they run out of fuel. What would you do? Your questions about radio static are puzzling. I'm not aware of any evidence that she was troubled by static any more than is normal on HF frequencies. I can't imagine where you got the impression that she was using VHF. Maybe it's the same place where you heard that all Japanese twin engine planes at that time were fabric and that the Japanese would have given anything to get their hands on her Electra. Not only did Japan have several all-metal twins in production in 1937, but they had also purchased an Electra from Lockheed the year before on the open market. If you need further references or sources for the information provided above just let me know. I hope you enjoy the forum. Love to mother, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:54:02 EST From: Jim Tierney Subject: Re: NOONAN'S SEAT Ric---Regarding FJN and his radio/DF skills... There was a certain amount of crosstraining between all the crew members of the Clippers. This was done by command of Andre Priester,etc. FJN probably had some basic indoctrination in the skills of the radio operator regarding communications and BASIC DF. He would have done this in his first years with PAA. How current he was or how far his skills had deteriorated thru lack of use is unknown. The crosstraining was normally only used in emergencies as when someone became ill or unable to complete the flight. They could go on to the next Main base and get a replacement. Whether this ever happened on an FJN flight- I dont know--It is safe to assume that his skills were minimal at best by July 37 Jim Tierney **************************************************************** From Ric And remember, the DFing role of the air crew in the Pan Am system was passive. It was the people on the ground who took the bearing. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:00:01 EST From: Russ Cherry Subject: Scott Berg's Book "Lindbergh" Hi Ric: I received this book for Christmas and am about half done reading it. I find it to be very analytic and personal with respect to his character and values. I recommend it all in the TIGHAR forum and others interested in this aviation pioneer and visionary. Russ Cherry ************************************************************** From Ric I too am reading Berg's book and enjoying it. The only fault I can find is in the author obvious lack of familiarity with aviation - referring to a takeoff run as "taxiing" and references to Lindbergh's "bombing missions" in the Pacific. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:04:46 EST From: Jerry Hamilton Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise From Ric, "If they do, it will be a pretty good indicator that the sextant box found on Niku with the bones in 1940 was once U.S. Navy property. What, I wonder, will that tell us?" I am under the weather hosting a flu bug, but my foggy recollection says we have reports that Fred borrowed an octant from the Navy in San Diego before the first attempt. If the stenciling tracks to a SD Navy base in 1937, we have a connection. Although I don't know if there is other info documenting the actual equipment he had along for the second attempt which would support or contradict this. And thanks for cutting Sactodave off. The Forum was starting to become call-in radio (you know, where people yell unsubstantiated pontifications at one another amid fervent name calling). Please be quicker with the knife in the future. Happy New Year to all on the Forum! blue skies, -jerry *************************************************************** From Ric Sorry to hear you're socked in. You're correct about the bubble octant borrowed from the Navy. It came from North Island and the serial number was 12-36. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:06:38 EST From: Gene Dangelo Subject: Re: Historic preservation Ric's right about the grease! That hair pomade was called "Macassar." It meant "bear oil." That's why the little doilies that people used to put on sofa and cloth chair tops (where the head made contact) were called "Antimacassars." Their job was to soak up Macassar. I learned that piece of trivia in 1974 from my English 101 professor, the Rev. Richard Wirsing, who went on to become the archivist for Duquesne University, my alma mater. Happy New Year! Gene Dangelo #2211 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:09:49 EST From: Jim Tierney Subject: Re: QUESTIONS & ANSWERS, etc Oh NO Spare me!!!! 'I enjoy being a churl? Please!! Jim Tierney ************************************************************* From Ric Sorry about the vomit on the keyboard. We could probably work up the complete lyrics if you like. Happy New Year to ALL! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:18:14 EST From: Roger Kelley Subject: Re: NOONAN'S SEAT Maybe a floor plan of AE's Electra could be published in a future isssue of TIGHAR TRACKS ? I'd be interested to see the lay out. Thanks, Roger Kelley #2112 ************************************************************* From Ric So would I. We have the cabin fuel tank configuration and, of course, the cockpit lay out, but we really don't know what the aft end of the cabin looked like after the repairs were made following the Luke Field crash. All the snazzy cut-away drawings you've seen in books and magazines are based upon descriptions and photos made prior to the first world flight attempt. As a representation of what the cabin looked like for the second attempt it's totally bogus. We can see enough through the open cabin door in some photos to know that here were no instruments mounted by the cabin windows, no chronometers shock-mounted in the navigator's table, and maybe no navigator's table. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:27:57 EST From: Roger Kelley Subject: Re: Why we search. THREE CHEERS FOR GOOD OLD RIC !!!! This has got to be one of the best, if not the best posting yet !! Yeesss!! Roger Kelley #2112 ************************************************************** From Ric (scuff foot, look at ground, smile churlishly, blush) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:36:47 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Gerald Gallagher's father TIGHAR FLASH, 12/8/98 reports that Gerald Gallagher's father was a doctor in the West African Medical Service. What is the source of that information and is anything else known of the father? Name, where he may have lived in Great Britain, anything that might lead to finding living family members? *************************************************************** From Ric Yeah, we have enough to do a search. Just a matter of finding the time. His name was Gerald Hugh Gallagher ("Irish" was Gerald Bernard Gallagher). We don't know where the Gallagher's came from in England but we do know that young Gerald attended Stonyhurst College and their records can probably give us what town he came from. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:39:42 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Niku sextant box Again, TIGHAR FLASH 12/8/98: Commander Nasmyth said: "As the sextant box has no distinguishing marks..." No stencilled 3500? No 1542, possibly handwritten? Was he looking at the same sextant box Gallagher described? ************************************************************* From Ric Yes, almost certainly. It seems apparent that Nasmyth did not consider the numbers to be "distinguishing marks." Curious indeed. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:43:53 EST From: Simon Ellwood Subject: Re: Noonan and the radio In those days, was the use of radio (particularly the aviation bands) regulated and licenced ? I can't speak for the US, but over here in the UK when you're learning to fly you have to obtain a radio licence before the instructor can send you off solo, and when you eventually earn your pilot's licence the radio licence forms an integral part of it. My point here is that - building on what Ric has said about navigators of that era - Earhart may have had a radio licence as she was a pilot, but not Noonan since his job didn't require him to use the radio ? Perhaps Mike our resident radio historian could tell us ? Just speculation. Happy new year to everone. Simon #2120 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:46:37 EST From: Tom King Subject: Travels of a mindless automaton In case any Forum Follower is interested, TIGHAR's mindless automaton archeologist plans to be in the following cities on the following dates, and would be happy to talk with groups or just plain folks about the Earhart Project. I have slides, handouts, etc. etc. Two warnings, though: 1. I'm just a dumb archeologist, and don't know about all that airplane and radio stuff. 2. My travels are contingent on my classes filling (I teach short courses in federal historic preservation requirements), and they don't always, whereupon I don't have enough of Other People's Money to travel). But assuming a sufficiency of OPM, I'll be in the following places on the following dates, and if anybody wants a talk to their local Rotary Club, or just wants to have dinner and talk about the project, I'm willing. Tom King Earhart Project Archeologist Schedule Feb. 3-10 Atlanta, GA Feb. 24-26: Window Rock, AZ March 15-17: Reno, NV April 6-16: Honolulu, HI April 19-22: Sacramento, CA April 28-May 5: San Francisco, CA May 18-20: Fort Hood, TX June 7-9: Phoenix, AZ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:52:39 EST From: Mike Subject: Lincoln chair > You have a common misconception about the Lincoln chair. That's not dried > blood. It's the grease men used to put on their hair. Ric, my wife and I wouldn't have even noticed it but for the sign pointing it out. (Or it was in one of their pamphlets - we only looked for it after reading about it.) Anyway, if there's a misconception it's on the part of the museum - we just believed what we were told. *************************************************************** From Ric Now we have a mystery on our hands. Several years ago we taught an Aviation Archeaology & Historic Preservation Course at the Henry Ford Museum. At that time, I'm quite sure that the information about the stain being grease, not blood, was on the placard in front of the exhibit. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:57:33 EST From: Ric Gillespie Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise Jon didn't actually intend this as a forum posting but I'm sure he won't mind. The sextant box in question is just an example of what an old nautical sextant box looks like. we have been puzzling over whether or not it has dovetailed corners (like the box found on Niku and the Pensacola box that belonged to Freddie). Hard to tell from the photo. LTM Ric ************************************************************ Ric, I can't believe we haven't communicated since last year... The sextant box picture is at: http://www.seajunk.com/nautical/clistpg1.htm in case you want to view it directly. Below is the description which accompanies it. Vintage Navigation Sextant...Marked "Hezzanith Observatory" this vintage WW2 Hezzamith sextant is numbered P.987 and is in pristine condition. Correction document attached to inside lid is dated Jan.1, 1946. Instrument is rare as it has four sighting scopes and all filters and mirrors are perfect. Box is the orignal. Brass hardware is intact, one brass clip is missing thumb press holder, and box has lock, but no key. Originally sold by Heath & Co of London......$450.00...Photo ...Sold...! Caught the last 1/3 of the History special - enough to get all of your part. Looked good to me. Casually mentioned to my wife "I correspond regularly with that guy on email..." - she seemed sort of surprised and somewhat impressed. Best of the new year to all the tighars. LTM jon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:02:05 EST From: Dave Bush Subject: Re: Why we search. Publicity Stunt? Yes. Chris Columbus did one of those, too. Had to have the press - a real press hound. Admiral Byrd, Edmund Hillary, Wiley Post, Lewis & Clark, press hounds and publicity stunts abounding. Or were they adventure junkies? Or did they truly want to push the boundaries of knowledge and make a contribution to mankind? Probably all of the above and other more personal reasons. Who can understand or fathom everything that motivates one person. Read about T.E. Lawrence (ie Lawrence of Arabia) in the latest National Geographic. Another press hound, for sure, and still getting it. Well this dogmatic camp follower is ready to load his backpack and follow you wherever. Love To Mother, Dave Bush #2200 ************************************************************** From Ric Come to think of it, if the real point of what we're doing is to draw attention to something we feel is important then The Earhart Project is - ta da! - a publicity stunt. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:39:01 EST From: Jack Subject: T Tracks back issues As a follow-up to Jack J's queries, Is there a list of Tighar Tracks back issues anywhere that will also summarize whats in the issue? I would be interested in knowing about issues prior to Vol. 14, No. 1 (May 15, 1998). HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! Dog Six King. Regards, Jack, # 2157 **************************************************************** From Ric We could mount a master list on the website with the contents of each issue all the way back to Vol 1, No.1 (1985). The early issues, back when it was more of a newsletter than a magazine, are available only as part of compilations of several years worth, but at least the list would let members see what has been published and what they might like to order. Anybody else think that this would be a good idea? It would take a little time and hassle to set up, but if the interest is there we're happy to do it. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:41:37 EST From: Gene Dangelo Subject: Re: QUESTIONS & ANSWERS, et Let me know if you need me.... Gene Dangelo #2211 Composer-In-Residence:) ************************************************************* From Ric Oh I will. I will. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:58:27 EST From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: Gerald Gallagher's father You didn't answer the question as to the source of the information... ************************************************************** From Ric Terribly sorry. One of the files we copied in England was Gallagher's 3 volume "Personal File" which catalogs his entire career with the Colonial Service. The very first document lists who his father is and describes his education. The are also references to his father in correspondence at the time of Gerald's death. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:01:23 EST From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: NOONAN'S SEAT Have you seen any pictures looking aft from the cabin door, either before or after the Luke Field incident? I sure haven't, but you have a better collection than I. I've heard stories that there was a bathrooom way in the back... ************************************************************* From Ric No stills, but there are a couple of quick movie shots looking aft at the time of the first attempt. I haven't seen anything that dates from after Luke Field. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:04:26 EST From: Ric Gillespie Subject: Re: NOONAN'S SEAT Oh yeah, and about the bathroom... Normally the lavatory in the Model 10 was behind a partition which was just aft of the cabin door. Earhart's ship had that partition and the "can" was almost certainly in the usual place. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:09:53 EST From: Roger Kelley Subject: Saipan Island.......... Unfortunately, Bob Cole's opinion is lacking in historical accuracy. Bob stated, when referring to Saipan, "the Marines were not there." Not so. The Marine Corps was responsible for the capture of Saipan, with the assistance of the US Army. On June 15, 1944, under the command of Lieutenant General Holland M. Smith, USMC, the 2nd Marine Division, the 4th Marine Division and the 27th Infantry Division, US Army, conducted an amphibious assault on the island of Saipan. The invasion force totaled 71,000 men. The island was secured on July 9, 1944, after the 27th Division sustained approximately 4,000 causalities and the two Marine divisions suffered approximately 12,000 casualties. After Saipan was secured, U.S. Navy Seabees constructed the huge airfields from which the B-29 Superforts bombed Japan. When the airfields were operational, the Army Air Forces were given control of Saipan and the strikes against Japan commenced. As a matter of fact, the 27th Division, U.S. Army, after lacking in performance during the invasions of Makin and Eniwetok, was again lacking in it's performance under fire, and in the assault, on Saipan. Their lack of military performance forced Lieutenant General Holland M. Smith to relieve the 27th Division commander, Major General Ralph C. Smith, U.S. Army, of his command on June 24. The performance of the 27th Division was personified in the memoirs of Major General L. R. Jones, U.S.M.C, as related in Allan R. Millett's book, Semper Fidelis, The History of the United States Marine Corps. General Jones stated in his memoirs, "When one Army Colonel complained to the Marine counterpart on his flank that his men were being hit with friendly fire, the Marine's response was typical: "Goddam you, in order to shoot at you, I'd have to reverse every weapon 180 degrees, and you'd still be out of range!!" Bob Cole's father without doubt arrived on Saipan after the assault and after the assault forces were withdrawn. The Marines were on Saipan. If anyone found AE's Electra during or after the assault on Aslito airfield, (a prime objective) or what someone said they found, that's another story. I agree with TIGHAR. No one found the Electra on Saipan. AE and FN landed on, and perished on Nikumaroro Island. Love to mother, Roger Kelley, #2112 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:11:47 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Re: Niku sextant box Re: Following quotes... Yes, worrisome. I would think he would have mentioned the numbers in such a statement. But you must be right. Not considered "distinguishing marks." >Again, TIGHAR FLASH 12/8/98: Commander Nasmyth said: "As the sextant box >has no distinguishing marks..." No stencilled 3500? No 1542, possibly >handwritten? Was he looking at the same sextant box Gallagher described? >************************************************************* >>From Ric > >Yes, almost certainly. It seems apparent that Nasmyth did not consider the >numbers to be "distinguishing marks." Curious indeed. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:39:01 EST From: Andrew McKenna Subject: Reply to Cam Warren Cameron Warren writes: >Skimming through the pile of TIGHARMAIL accumulated over the holidays, I >noticed a certain amount of fairly reasonable potshots taken at The >Royal Churl himself (Ric, for those of you who are more loyal than >perceptive). And a lot of heart-warming support reminiscent of the Beany >Baby crowd. (Impressive! They didn't teach Charisma 101 when I went to >school - I think it was a '60s thing, like bombing the university >physics lab in the interests of World Peace). Hey Cam, you could do us all a favor by not being so condescending to the rest of us who give TIGHAR our support. We are not all part of the "Beany Baby crowd", nor are we mindless brainwashed followers. Rather, most of us are intelligent, educated, and logically thinking folks who have concluded, based upon the scientific approach and the evidence (such as it is) presented by TIGHAR, that there is a good possibility the TIGHAR scenario could be lead to solving the AE mystery. Have you got a better scenario? The uncalled for and unsubstantiated attacks not only demean TIGHAR and it's membership, they demean yourself. You wrote: >Not to be ungrateful - Ric DOES share information willingly when asked >politely, although ACCEPTING anything not conforming to his Earhart >scenario is a different matter - but sactodave has a point or two. This is an interesting point you make. TIGHAR has and will continue to share our information with not only the members, but the public at large. To date, I cannot remember much, beyond the WInslow Reef expedition, that you, Sactodave, Strippel, and other critics of the TIGHAR scenario have shared with TIGHAR and the Forum. All of you may have significant research results, but none of it seems to have been offered up to the Forum for our consideration. If you, Sactodave, or anyone else has something significant to offer, other than sarcasm and condescending remarks, then please by all means post it up to the Forum. If you guys have some hard evidence that points in a different direction than that presented by TIGHAR to date, you will be surprised at how fast TIGHAR and the rest of us will change our tune. The only criteria is that any evidence must be credible and be able to pass the test of scientific scrutiny. In fact, we change our tune all the time as new information comes in, and we freely admit when part of our theory no longer passes the test. It is not productive for you, Strippel, and sactodave to simply sit on the sidelines taking electronic potshots at TIGHAR without providing a basis for your actions. You state that some of these potshot are "fairly reasonable" but this is not the case if they are not backed up, and this is the part that few of the potshotters are willing to do. You, Strippel, and sactodave all smugly make like the TIGHAR members are being led like lambs to slaughter, yet you fail to offer up any alternative information, choosing only to say vague things like (and I do not mean for these to be direct quotes) 'a lot of researchers have uncovered evidence that TIGHAR ignores', and 'a lot of people who know more about AE than you do' etc. without any specifics. If you guys were less combative, and had something to offer in terms of furthering the search for AE, you will win us over far faster than by calling us all a bunch of nincompoops. You tout the following as having contributed to the search for AE: >Rollin Reineck has been mentioned, deservedly. Joe Gervais is still >collecting every scrap of info about Earhart. Your nemesis Bill Prymak >doesn't quit either, nor does Dick Strippel. All these, and many more, >have contributed in varying degrees - they just don't beat their chests >as loudly as the leader of the T-Gang. No doubt these folks have worked hard at solving the mystery, but the only arena some of them beat their chests vigorously is in the venomous attacks against TIGHAR. I am not sure what we did to deserve such bile, but as far as I can see it is unwarranted. If our only sin has been being able to beat our chests louder than the rest, we stand guilty, and their attacks are only sour grapes. If, however, there are other sins which deserve the venom you guys spew, then please let me and the rest of the TIGHAR membership know what they are, in detail, and let us decide if Ric is the devil incarnate. In any case, please stop implying that the TIGHAR membership a bunch of boobs. We are not. If the members find Ric guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, we will unseat him by abandoning the organization, or perhaps put you in his place to run the show. I think you would find out that the flock is not so docile and Ric's seat is more like a crucible. Again, you wrote: >I'd be delighted if you could announce (truthfully this time) "The Mystery >Is Solved!". Thanks for reminding us of what TIGHAR said in 1992. Perhaps the statement was a bit premature, but Ric felt confident saying it at the time, and it has nothing to do with being truthful or untruthful. A lot of research has gone under the bridge since then, and I am pretty sure that Ric admits that he would not say the same thing today in exactly the same way. However, nothing has come to light during the intervening years that would render that statement false, Quite the contrary, in fact, as I believe what we have uncovered during the last 6 years works strongly in favor of our theory. Granted, no smoking gun yet, but has anyone got something better? If so, bring it to light on the Forum. If your statement is really true, then I suggest that you take a more positive attitude toward TIGHAR and what we are doing. If you contribute meaningfully, TIGHAR will respond. And lastly you wrote: >Meanwhile, cut us poor, under-financed and un-loved grubbers a little >slack. Besides the fact that you, sactodave, and strippel have gotten considerable slack from the Forum moderator, I want you to know that what you wrote sounds like a pretty good description of the average TIGHAR member. It has only been through banding together into an organization that we have been able to achieve any results, followed by stature, media attention, funding, and then further results. Yes, it is a self amplifying circuit driven by a healthy membership and strict adherence to scientific principles. If you really feel that dispossessed, stop fighting against us and join our effort. LTM Andrew McKenna #1045C ************************************************************* From Ric In reading Andrew's posting I was struck by the uncanny similarity of a portion of it to another "posting" written long ago. In 1320, in a place called Arbroath, Andrew's ancestors (and mine) drew up a document to be sent to the Pope explaining how they felt about their leader King Robert Bruce. It says, in part: "To him we are bound... by his merits, that our freedom may be still maintained, and by him, come what may, we mean to stand. Yet if he should give up what he has begun...we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our king." Not that I would ever compare myself to The Bruce, but I think that Andrew is expressing the same principle - that any real leader of free people is, in fact, the humblest of servants. Love to mother, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 18:41:25 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Re: Gerald Gallagher's father The search for Gerald Gallagher's family and, hopefully, living members, is in progress... one phase of it at any rate. The new information you've provided will be a great help. Naturally, I'll pass along anything we learn >*************************************************************** >>From Ric > >Yeah, we have enough to do a search. Just a matter of finding the time. His >name was Gerald Hugh Gallagher ("Irish" was Gerald Bernard Gallagher). We >don't know where the Gallagher's came from in England but we do know that >young Gerald attended Stonyhurst College and their records can probably give >us what town he came from. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:09:33 EST From: Simon Ellwood Subject: Gerald Gallagher - Stonyhurst College Ref: Vern's email about extra Gallagher info. and your response, Stonyhurst College is in Lancashire - not a million miles from me. If you haven't already seen it, the college has a web page at:- www.stonyhurst.ac.uk In your experience, do academic establishments such as this allow access to their student records ? What tact should I take ? Simon #2120 *************************************************************** From Ric I would urge that you and Vern coordinate your efforts so that we don't look as disorganized as we are. I have no idea whether the college will release the information we're looking for. All we can do is ask. Fortunately, we got a ton of good press in England recently about the files Kenton and I found at Hanslope, so that can't hurt. Here are the specifics we have: Gerald Bernard Gallagher (born July 6, 1912) attended Stonyhurst College from July 1924 to July 1930. His achievements there are listed as - School Certificate Matriculation Gymnastics Team Corporal O.T.C. From there he went on to Cambridge University (Downing College) from October 1930 to June 1934. Achievements - College 1st Crew 1933, 1934 Henley Crews 1933 and 1934 1st M.B. Dec. 1932 2nd M.B. Part 1, June 1933 He received a B.A. (3rd Class) Ordinary Degree in June 1933. From there he went to St. Bartholomew's Hospital Medical School from January to June 1935 but apparently dropped out abruptly and, in September 1935 began "Studying agriculture on farm with Mr. G. Butler, Maiden Hall, Bennets Bridge, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland" The next summer he was accepted by the Colonial Service and went back to Cambridge for three semesters of special training for a posting to the Western Pacific High Commission. He sailed for the Pacific in June 1937. His mother was Edith Annie Clancy Gallagher. At the time of his death she was living in London doing war work. She had two children, Gerald and a younger son Hugh. Gerald died on Gardner and Hugh was killed in a wartime bombing raid on Malta. Edith had a sister, known to us only as "Miss Clancy" who lived at Clanmere, Graham Road, Malvern, Worcs., England. Miss Clancy was to be the recipient of Gerald's personal effects when they were shipped home. These were to include a photo album found with his things on Gardner Island. It would be nice to find that album. Love to mother, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:32:32 EST From: Bob Subject: Re: Noonan And The Radio I have a vague recollection of something on the forum, a couple of months ago, about a Noonan radio license. I believe I recall that someone said he had an FCC Radiotelegraph Second Class License. If this were true, that means besides the radio theory he would have needed to know to pass the test, he would also have needed to pass a 15 words per minute CW (Morse Code) test, both sending and receiving. In the 30s all Pan Am pilots were required to get that license. I don't think the Navigators or Flight Engineers were. If Noonan had that license, he got it on his own. In later years, I know the FCC only required a Third Class Restricted Permit to operate an aircraft radio on voice. Filling out a form was all that was required to get that Permit. I don't know what year that requirement went into effect. LTM, Bob *************************************************************** From Ric An FCC Radiotelegraph Second Class License? Do we know that? JHam? How say you? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:06:05 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise >The sextant box in question is just an example of what an old nautical sextant >box looks like. we have been puzzling over whether or not it has dovetailed >corners (like the box found on Niku and the Pensacola box that belonged to >Freddie). Hard to tell from the photo. I think you will find that most wood boxes of this sort have dovetailed corners. It's about the only way to make a nice, sturdy corner and easy to do once you have the proper equipment. I've seen, in years past, very ordinary boxes made with dovetailed corners -- even boxes to ship smoked and/or salted fish! These boxes, made of very low-grade wood, even had a sliding lid fitted into grooved side pieces. *************************************************************** From Ric The only thing that makes me think that the dovetailing was unusual is Commander Nasmyth's comment on August 11, 1941: "...all I have been able to find out is that the make of the box - that is - the dovetailing of the corners - makes it appear to be of French origin. This is the same guy who doesn't consider the numbers on the box to be distinguishing features. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:16:36 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: The Gallaghers I just realized that you had not indicated the source of the information related to our Gallagher's father. I presume it was something found during the recent mission to England. What about the personal effects found on Niku after Gallagher's death? Again, I presume there was some record of these items being found in Gallagher's house on Niku. And, I presume, that the sextant, pilot's license, log book, and other items were not found at Hanslope Park. Was there indication of what had been done with the personal effects? I expect they were delivered to some family member. Do we know who and where that person was at the time? Searching for Gallaghers John Thompson lives in Derry in N/W Ireland. He says Gallagher is a surname peculiar to Derry and Donegal. Donegal is just three miles from Derry. John has indicated a definite interest in attempting to track down the Gallaghers -- both our "Gallagher-of-Niku" and That "Gallagher-of-the-field" where Amelia landed after her solo crossing of the Atlantic. Any information we have on any of the Gallaghers will help John in his search. We hope a Gallagher search may lead to some new insight into where the bones were found on Niku in 1940. It will also be interesting to discover whether there is a relatively close connection between "Gallagher-of-Niku" and the "Gallagher-of-the-field." If so, it is a really amazing coincidence! ************************************************************** From Ric I think my earlier posting answered most of these questions. Let me know if you have more. No artifacts are kept at Hanslope Park. Nothing there but paper. Only a very few of Gerald's personal effects were sent home after his death. Most of his stuff was auctioned off to settle his debts. However, there was a photo album which supposedly came home and was probably sent to his mother's sister's address, as I mentioned in my posting. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:34:25 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Itasca's Smoke "The Mysteries of Amelia Earhart," on "The History Channel" cleared up a very minor point that had bothered me for some time. We know AE and Fred were close to Howland on the morning of July 2, 1937. The island is small, low and difficult to see. But why did they not see that column of black smoke rising above the Itasca? The film clip shows that it was NOT that way at all. There was no column of black smoke rising high above the Itasca! The smoke was blowing horizontally across the ocean and scarcely rising above the stack. From a distance, it would have looked like another bit of cloud on the horizon. I wonder if the various bits of black & white film included in the program were all for real? Of course, we recognize some of it, including the Lae boarding and takeoff scenes. And there were media people on Howland. Some were in the Itasca radio room and recognized Amelia's voice. Whether or not the scene of Itasca billowing black smoke is for real, we know there was a wind of about 25 knots. The smoke would have blown horizontally as shown. **************************************************************** From Ric No Vern. Not 25 knots. Observations taken at Howland that morning were: Surface - ESE at 16 knts 1,000 ft - ESE at 15 knts 2,000 ft - E at 17 knts The sky was five-tenths obscured by cumulus clouds whose bases were at 2,650 feet. These observations were reported by Richard Black, the Dept. of Interior representative. As for the authenticity of the photo, it was obtained by TIGHAR from Frank Stewart who was the Quartermaster aboard Itasca. It seems to have been taken at Howland. At least the handwritten notation on the reverse of the original print says "Servicing Howland", but there is some question as to when the photo was taken. Itasca serviced Howland several times in those years and without a date on the photo it's hard to be sure that it was taken on that particular trip. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:44:18 EST From: Dustoff Subject: Characters As a no talent, but aspiring novelist, I note with interest the variety of rich and intriguing characters that occasionally pop-up on the forum, cause a stir, and fade to obscurity and/or discredit. They are terrifically entertaining, and knowing how well you write, well, I was just wondering: Do you make these guys up? Will we see them in the movie version, perhaps played by you in various forms of disguise? Are there really SactoDaves, and Stripples, and Cams, etc,etc. out there??? Really? Come on now, you'll feel better if you confess. Best, Dustoff1 2131 ************************************************************* From Ric Lord, I wish I was that creative. I could just sit here and write novels instead of bashing about the Pacific. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:42:54 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise After this, I'm going to leave this sextant thing alone, BUT, at http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/advert/da246.htm there is a nice picture of a German sextant, with box (described below) (emphasis added). It doesn't specify age or era... How does it compare with the known FN sextant box? German-made for the American market, the sextant is marked only "Eugenes Fabricat". A paper trade label inside the box lid reads "Negus Nautical Instruments, 69 Pearl Street, New York". 3 ring frame with shaped wooden handle, silvered scale and vernier with 6" radius. The short telescope has a 1 1/8" objective and draw tube focus; the long telescope is 7 1/2" long, with drawtube focus; the sighting tube is 3 1/4" long. A screw-on sun filter fits all three tubes. The mirrors are fine and the movements are smooth, but all the filters have been removed. The black finish on the brass is poor. The rectangular fitted box has dovetailed joints and is fully equipped with adjustment tool, sun filter, the two telescopes and sighting tube. There's another one (English - WWII vintage) at http://www.chronometer.net/nav.htm W.W. II Merchant Marine English Sextant. W.W. II era navigation sextant by Henry Hughes & Son Ltd.. 6 inch Radius with several scopes, oil, miniature screwdriver and sundry accessories. Appears to be complete and in good condition (The arm is somewhat stiff but moves back and forth accurately). Complete with original Rating Certificate dated 2/28/45 is framed inside top lid. Box with brass hardware is stamped "WARTIME CASE". Nautical retailer's decal from London on inside. There is a place for batteries and light that illuminate the scale. It also has provenance. The sextant comes with what appears to be original owner's paperwork consisting of invoice dated 3/28/45 made out to M.C. Klein, 3rd Officer of "SS George Dewey". There is also a customs form dated 4/16/45 to the same person whose address is listed as W. 20th St., NYC and indicating he had sailed from Whales (sic). LTM, jon *************************************************************** From Ric Very interesting. Although only a corner of the box is visible, the box pictured with the German sextant looks identical to the Pensacola box, right down to the little closure hooks. The sextant in the Pensacola box is also German but from a different manufacturer (Ludolf rather than Eugenes). Questions, questions. I wonder if there are any numbers written on the Eugenes Fabricat box? I wonder if that is the original box or whether the box may have been provided by the New York importer? If Negus Nautical Instruments routinely supplied boxes for their imported German sextants (from various manufacturers) we could have our source for the Pensacola box. Is Negus still in business? Can we get somebody to give us more info and maybe some more photos of the Eugenes box? Somebody want to run with this? It's worth chasing. I couldn't get the URL for the British sextant to work. Good work Jon. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:44:34 EST From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: T Tracks back issues Ric asked >Anybody else think that this would be a good idea? It would take a little >time and hassle to set up, but if the interest is there we're happy to do it. Yes!. Go for it! Tom #2179 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:50:16 EST From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: NOONAN'S SEAT Ric wrote >No stills, but there are a couple of quick movie shots looking aft at the time >of the first attempt. I haven't seen anything that dates from after Luke >Field. Of course not. The gummint didn't allow any photography of all that top-secret equipment back there! Duh, Ric! ;) **************************************************************** From Ric (smacking forehead) Of course! Only Admiral Nimitz would have those photos! He probably took them with him to his grave. That's why he told Fred Goerner that he was on the right track and should "keep digging for the truth." Okay, now, how do we get a court order to exhume? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 10:57:10 EST From: Jon Subject: Re: Saipan Island...1957-1960 Ric; there is a great historic and geographic map of saipan, tinian, threw the marianas visitors bureau, p.o. box 861,saipan, m.p.96950 also very interesting 21 min. movie "an island called saipan" (american memorial park) some good pre ww2 vintage pacific footage. as for the record I bought a 1942 gen. staff car for 25.00, that was the gen holland smiths command car also carried many of the components to the" A" bomb from aslto airstrip to tanapag harbor,than 3 miles to tinian is. On the 4 and 5th of aug,1944, many marines, and seabees on saipan during and after the war, we were starting to build b-52 air strips threw out the pacific, thanks for your time jon luck, tx. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:12:48 EST From: Swal Subject: Re: T Tracks back issues As regards this back issues - I would be very interested as a new subscriber. I have had an immense interest in this issue for a number of years. Didn't really know there was an org. Just got my computer about 3 months ago. ************************************************************** From Ric I hear ya. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:00:47 EST From: Ric Gillespie Subject: Close Call I've got to share this. I just had the bejesus scared out of me by an email that came in via the website. To whit: ---------------- You may be interested in the following. Late in 1943 virtually an entire Marine Corps squadron of new F4U Corsair fighters of VMF-422 squadron went down during a 700-mile Pacific Ocean flight from Betio in the Tarawa Atoll to Funafuti, which was to be the staging area for the squadron's participation in the forthcoming attack on the Marshall Islands. The 23 planes, flying in formation, were the victims of series of miscalculations in the preparations for the flight, one of which was a failure to access an up-to-date weather report and forecast for the route. The latter resulted in the planes unexpectedly encountering and being scattered by an intense storm. Some of the pilots were never seen again, some were forced to ditch when they ran out of fuel, one crash landed on an intermediate island and at least one ditched deliberately in an effort to save another pilot who had ditched previously. Although 22 of the Corsairs have been resting at the bottom of the Pacific since the disaster, seventeen of the pilots managed to survive after experiences involving much danger, hardship and heroism. Nine of those survivors, now in their 70s and 80s, are still present as members of the VMF-422 veterans association. I have given you here just the bare bones of the story of this disaster, which is little-known for several reasons. If TIGHAR is interested in obtaining more and detailed information about the event, please contact me by E-mail at 71554.175@compuserve.com or by phone at (818) 342-9972. I am in close contact with a member of the squadron association. Sincerely, Daniel L. Bagott ----------------------------------- Immediately I thought, "Wait a minute. Old Pulekai on Funafuti told us that he had some notion that the wreckage he saw on Gardner was from the war, that it was a small plane, and that the pilot had been rescued. Late 1943 was before the Coasties arrived at Gardner. Only the Gilbertese colonists were there. It's way, way off course but is there any chance that one of those Corsairs made it Gardner? Could that be the source of Pulekai's story?" I called Mr. Baggot and asked if any of the Corsairs had crash landed on an island. He said, " Yes, as a matter of fact, one did. The pilot was slightly injured but the natives treated him like a god and he was later rescued by a destroyer." (At this point my stomach is not feeling so good.) "Do you know the name of the island?" I asked, trying to sound nonchalant. "No, but if you can hold on for a minute I'll go look it up." After one of the longest minutes of my life he came back with, "It was called Niutao. One other guy bailed out over an island called Nui but he drowned in the surf. One pilot actually made it to Funafuti. The rest apparently went down at sea." Niutao and Nui are both in the Ellice Group (now the nation of Tuvalu) and lie directly north of Funafuti. Whatever weather put them there would probably not put any of the flight 500 nautical miles to the northeast on Gardner. Whew! We have always been quite sure that no wartime aircraft were ever lost at Gardner/Nikumaroro because the island was inhabited during the entire period and no mention of an airplane loss has ever turned up in the island's records. Still, for that period between Gallagher's death in September 1941 and the arrival of the Coast Guard in July of 1944 the colonists were pretty much on their own with only occasional visits from the authorities (such as the USS Swan's visits in 1942). The wartime records we've been able to find show several aircraft missing and presumed lost at sea, but none lost on any island except Sydney where the C-47 went down in 1943. But you can't prove a negative hypothesis. We can't prove that there was not a wartime loss at Gardner. We can only prove that we can't find any record of one. It's hard to aggressively go after information which you hope isn't there, but that's what you have to do. Sometimes it can be pretty scary. Love to mother, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:40:01 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Re: Itasca's Smoke OK, a breeze of 16 knots. That's enough. I'm satisfied that I now understand why AE and Fred did not see the Itasca's smoke. An obvious possibility that had not occurred to me until I saw the picture. The smoke was as futile as many other things done both in the air and on the surface. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:44:02 EST From: Gene Dangelo Subject: Re: T Tracks back issues I too would be pleased with the availability of back issues! Gene Dangelo #2211 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:46:04 EST From: Jerry Hamilton Subject: Re: Noonan And The Radio I have no record of any radio license. Ron Dawson checked with the FCC last year and got the following reply. In a message dated 5/26/98 6:40:40 AM EST, LWOODS@fcc.gov writes: Subj: Re: radio license archives Date: 5/26/98 6:40:40 AM EST From: LWOODS@fcc.gov (Laurel WOODS) To: Ron Dawson The FCC does not maintain on-line historical information about licenses beyond the time that such information is needed for regulatory purposes. The issuance and expiration dates of the current license are all that is required to determine if a license is valid. The FCC does maintain some records on microfiche, but these only go back in some cases to the 1970's. Blue skies, -jerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:57:00 EST From: Craig Fuller Subject: Re: Close Call The date of the VMF-422 F4U ferrying fiasco was 25 JAN 44. Sorry I didn't send that report to you, but felt is was so far away from Gardner that is was not important. What worries me is the several aircraft missing from Canton to Funafuti. The USN reports lack detailed information, but if the wreckage was later found on an island I would have expected the crew members to be no longer listed as missing. Craig Fuller TIGHAR # 1589C Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research *************************************************************** From Ric As far as I know, everything that went missing between Canton and Funafuti was big (B-24, PBM. etc.). Lots of wreckage, lots of people. As with the Sydney Island crash, while the official record may take a while to find (thanks again Craig), an event that like that on a populated island lives in the folklore. We heard about a wreck on Sydney as soon as we started asking questions about the Phoenix Group. There are also stories about a wreck on Gardner. Not nearly as many, and nobody claims to have been there when the wreck happened. All of the stories involve someone finding pieces from a plane which had arrived there at some some unknown time in the past. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:20:40 EST From: Jack J. Subject: Re: Saipan Island.......... Hurry!!! Say something nice about the Marines. Personally, I like the Marines. I did some work with the Marine Recon, and they are top notch combat infantry. Semper Fi, Mr. Kelley. Ric, jump in here quick, or grab your steel pot and pull it down around your ankles. Don't get in front of any fans, because there is a S--- storm brewing!!!!!!! Jack J. Semper Fi to all you mothers. My favorite expression comes courtesy of the Marines, and it goes like this. To err is human, to forgive divine, NEITHER of which is Marine Corps policy. You gotta love em! ************************************************************** From Ric Let me get this straight. You're asking a former Army officer to say something nice about the Marines. Okay, anything for the cause. I'll give it a shot. Whenever there's a need for a frontal assault, thank God for the Marines. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:37:38 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: The Gallagher Quest I've E-mailed both Simon, in England, and John Thompson, in Ireland and made sure they had all the latest information on the Gallaghers -- and the Clancys. I included the information from your recent posting. A geographical division of effort seems reasonable with each of them working their own side of the Irish Sea. I expect that we will start with Stonyhurst college, in England, then try Cambridge. Ireland is clearly the place to look for Gallaghers, in general, and probably Clancys as well. It's interesting to see that our Gallagher spent at least some time in Ireland on a farm! I wonder where we'll find he was born? I'm rather encouraged by the finding of our Gallagher's aunt, "Miss, Clancy" and an address for her, in the 1940s. Both of Edith Gallagher's sons died in the 1940s. Unless Hugh Gallagher already had children, that's the end of the line. But "Miss. Clancy" appears to have been an unmarried woman at the time. If she was considerably younger than Edith, she just might still be living. And she may have later married and had children. Those children would still be around and might have that photo album. There might also be that bundle of letters I keep hoping for! A bunch of stuff related to the cousin they never knew who died somewhere in the South Pacific during the war. (During the war for England) It's curious that the personal effects were sent to Miss. Clancy. Had Gallagher's mother died? And what of his father? Somewhere in Africa, better to send the stuff to England. I wonder when and where our Gallagher learned to fly? And I wonder if his pilot's license, log book, etc. were among the things sent back to Miss. Clancy? Do we know when those things were sent back to England? In 1941, I presume but there may have been a considerable delay. That might have some bearing on when the address stated for Miss. Clancy was valid. ************************************************************** From Ric Gallagher's effects did not get shipped home to England until after the war. A memorandum dated 7 August 1945 from the Secretary of the WPHC directs "Messrs. W.R. Carpenter & Co. (Fiji) Ltd." to "collect four tin trunks from this office and forward them to the following address" (that being Miss Clancy's). I would suppose that Edith asked that the stuff be sent to her sister because her own wartime address in London was liable to change. We have no information about when Edith may have died. I expect that the logbooks and any personal papers were included in the material sent home. Best guess about where he learned to fly would be somewhere around Cambridge, perhaps associated with a university flying club. The settlement of Gerald's estate was complicated by the fact that he had made his brother Hugh executor of his will. Hugh was unavailable, being in the military and serving in Malta and subsequentally getting killed. Ultimately, it was Harry Maude who obtained a power of attorney and got the mess cleared up. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:43:51 EST From: Bill Moffet Subject: Sextant boxes, prop hubs & Back Issues 1. I now have a Ball Recording Sextant, Mark 1, Mod. O, U.S.Navy, BuShips, No. 4828, 1944, in a wooden box with dovetailed corners and brass hdwe. Don't know how it can help in the FN matter, but if you want details, dimensions, etc., just say so. I will bring it down if you'd care to look at it. Can't find mirrors on it & haven't yet found out how the "ball recorder" works. 2. Just read most of Roessler & Gomez "AE-Case Closed". It's pretty awful as I expect you know, but did set me to wondering about the props on NR 16020. Did repairs after the Luke Field accident include full feathering props with hubs over the bosses? Pics in the History Ch. epic were so mixed up it's hard to tell. R&G make quite an issue of how AE left props in low pitch when parked, causing pitch shaft exposure to elements with subsequent rust and galling. Don't recall it was an issue in the WWII planes I flew. Think we always left 'em in low pitch on the ground. Comment? 3. Yes, I too would like back issues of T. Tracks LTM Bill Moffet #2156. ************************************************************** From Ric At your convenience, I'd like to see the box just for my own edification. No, NR16020 never had full-feathering props. Linda Finch's bogus 10E does. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:58:10 EST From: Andrew McKenna Subject: Winds Observations taken at Howland that morning were: Surface - ESE at 16 knts 1,000 ft - ESE at 15 knts 2,000 ft - E at 17 knts Applying these winds to AE flightplan, what effect would we expect on AE's flight path to Howland? Would she end up farther WNW than expected, or have I got it wrong? Were these winds factored into the statistical analysis of most likely ending locations that was presented to us at the AE Symposium in Delaware a couple of years ago? Just curious. AMCK 1045C *************************************************************** From Ric We need to remember that these were the winds at Howland on the morning of July 2nd. They may or may not resemble the winds encountered hundreds of miles to the west during the preceding night. Also, whatever the winds, there is no reason to think that they blew the flight off course. That's what a navigator does - keep the flight on course by adjusting the heading to compensate for winds. There is no reason to think that Noonan was not able to assess the flight's progress by means of star sightings during the night. The Monte Carlo projections done by Wagner Associates took all of the known factors into account but there were way to many unknown factors to permit a high degree of probability for any location. The best they came up with was that the flight probably ended up south of Howland and perhaps a bit short of the line of position passing through Howland. (Do I have that right Randy?) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:13:31 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise I guess I won't leave this alone just yet. Interestingly, the British box has very similar hooks except that they point in the opposite direction from the German box. Now, upon further examination of the first picture, I think there are essentially the same type hooks on the front of that box as well - what originally threw me off (besides the fact that you're looking straight down on it) was the locking mechanism which is clearly visible at the center of the front of the original picture. However, at least one of the other boxes also has this feature in conjunction with the hooks, so apparently the box would not be kept locked all the time. I will relocate the url for the Brit box and repost it - I must have copied it down wrong. Thus far I haven't dug up anything on Negus, except that Negus seems to have been a distributor more than a manufacturer. I'll root around and let you know what more I find. LTM jon ************************************************************** From Ric So the British box is similar too? "Mr. Gatty" thought that the box found on Niku was probably British. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:25:04 EST From: Daryll Bollinger Subject: Goerner, Nimitz Your reply to a posting on 1/3/99 was; *********************************************** >From Ric > >(smacking forehead) Of course! Only Admiral Nimitz would have those >photos! He probably took them with him to his grave. That's why he >told Fred Goerner that he was on the right track and should "keep >digging for the truth." Okay, now, how do we get a court order to >exhume? Since you brought it up, I have always wondered about Admiral Nimitz's quote in Goerner's book. I hope I paraphrase it accurately: "Now that you're going to Washington, Fred," he said, " I want to tell you Earhart and her navigator did go down in the Marshalls and were picked up by the Japanese." When a person reads this, they can take it at face value or discount it as false. If false, then; 1. Fred Goerner committed journalistic suicide by misquoting a famous person like Admiral Nimitz about such a famous disappearance as AE. If Goerner did misquote him, was it just to further his thesis on what happened to AE? If it was an intentional misquote, why would the Nimitz Museum house Goerner's papers? 2. If Fred Goerner's quote is correct then Admiral Nimitz lied. What would have been his motive to make a false statement like that? 3. If both Goerner and Nimitz were truthful, did someone intentionally give false information to Admiral Nimitz? Before Pearl Harbor Admiral Nimitz was chief of naval personnel, a position that you would not think he would have access to Ultra information from Safford's OP-20-G. When he took command of the Pacific Fleet in Dec. 1941 he did have access to Ultra ( code-breaking ) information. To make that statement truthfully, Admiral Nimitz would have had to rely on intelligence that someone gave him. Is there more to this story that I haven't heard? To maybe add a little to Howland island's history. The airfield and communications facility was judged destroyed by Japanese Naval Air Force raid on DEC. 9, 1941. That was followed up on DEC. 11 by boats from the 33rd Submarine Div. shelling the remaining installations. Daryll *************************************************************** From Ric If you'll go back and read the entire account of Goerner's dealings with Admiral Nimitz the most logical explanation seems to be that Nimitz didn't really know any more than Goerner did. Goerner had managed to convince Nimitz that Earhart had ended up in the Marshalls, etc. and the admiral was trying to direct Goerner to people whom he thought could provide the proof Fred needed. Nimitz succeeded in getting the doors opened for Goerner and Fred had high hopes that the Marines would finally come clean about what happened to Amelia. However, when push came to shove, nobody had any information. Nimitz seems to have been as frustrated as Goerner and actually tried to talk some of his old comrades into telling Fred what happened. They insisted, however, that they didn't know anything. Do you really think that a five-star admiral would urge his fellow officers to disclose classified information to a newsman? If Nimitz knew the real story, why didn't he tell Goerner himself? I have a little bit of (anecdotal) inside knowledge of this situation. Back when he was Senior Curator of the USAF Museum, Jack Hilliard was a good friend of mine. Odd as it seems, Jack was a Marine and in the 1960s had taken the brunt of Goerner's badgering about secret Earhart files. We talked about it at length in his office at Wright-Patterson. He went on and on about the frustration of trying to convince Goerner that the Marine Corps wasn't hiding anything because there was nothing to hide. The best evidence, however, that Goerner himself ultimately did not believe that Admiral Nimitz knew what he was talking about is the fact that, after further research following the publication of his 1966 book, Goerner himself rejected the notion that Earhart had come down in the Marshalls. Goerner, and Nimitz, became tangled in a web of anecdote that led to nothing but frustration. Historical investigations like this almost always start with stories. If they're true, or even partly true, good detective work will turn up documentation (as we have repeatedly demonstrated). If they're not, all that turns up are more allegations and stories which have to be accommodated by an ever more complicated hypothesis. Love to mother, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:34:16 EST From: Simon Ellwood Subject: Re: Winds Andrew McKenna wrote:- >Applying these winds to AE flight plan, what effect would we expect on AE's >flight path to Howland? Would she end up farther WNW than expected, or have >I got it wrong? >Were these winds factored into the statistical analysis of most likely >ending locations that was presented to us at the AE Symposium in Delaware a >couple of years ago? And part of Ric's response was:- >Also, whatever the winds, there is no reason to think that they blew the >flight off course. That's what a navigator does - keep the flight on course >by adjusting the heading to compensate for winds. There is no reason to >think that Noonan was not able to assess the flight's progress by means of >star sightings during the night. If I remember correctly from a Tracks article, I think we've established beyond reasonable doubt from radio signal strength / skip characteristics that the flight made it to quite close proximity to Howland (50 miles ?) - Fred seems to have done his wind compensation bit quite well. The flight seems to have fallen apart at the end in not being able to visually identify Howland. One other question ref. the Itasca's smoke - would the ship necessarily have been producing smoke at the time ? Wasn't she anchored at Howland ? LTM Simon #2120 *************************************************************** From Ric Yes, it does seem that they got very close to Howland. Probably within a 100 miles. Maybe closer. The real problem, in my estimation, was that their failure to obtain a DF bearing on the Itasca (or vice versa) left them not knowing which way to turn on the line of position. There's little doubt that the Itasca was indeed intentionally making smoke as an aid to Earhart. Also, you can't anchor at Howland (or at Niku for that matter). The reef drops away too steeply. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:59:50 EST From: Dick Pingrey Subject: Saipan Invasion and Search A good friend of mine, Dick Hanna, was part of the Marine Corp force that invaded the island of Saipan during World War II. He was a combat photographer and took part in the invasion and subsequent search of the island for captured American aircraft, etc. I asked Dick about that search and he said he remembered it very clearly as he was asked to take picture of various sites, etc. He is positive that no American aircraft of any type were found during that search. He also told me that a group of civilian dressed experts were brought in by the Navy to look at human remains, etc. He helped transport some of these people in the jeep that had been assigned to him. He said they told him that the human bones they looked at were most likely those of natives due to their short stature. Dick said that the Marine Division Commander was John C. Smith, not Holland M. Smith. Holland Smith was the over all Commander. He also said that the army participation was indeed very poorly lead and that eventually Marine noncommissioned troops, Sargents, etc. were assigned to lead the army forces because the army was failing so badly to meet their objectives. While Dick Hanna is getting up in years he has one of the clearest memories of any person I know. There is no doubt in my mind that what he remembers is correct. If there are specific questions about the Saipan invasion and later search that the Forum members would like me to ask Dick I will be glad to do so. Dick Pingrey 908C *************************************************************** From Ric I wonder if there were any reports written about the search for American airplanes, etc.? That's the only way to get past the War of the Anecdotes. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:18:34 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise I double checked the url for the British sextant, and it's: http://www.chronometer.net/nav.htm The page is mostly watches and such, but scroll down and you should find it. If you still can't get hooked up to it, try http://www.chronometer.net/ and then follow the lead to navigational items. This sextant box is very clearly dovetailed, has the hooks, and it also has the lock assembly in the center. Looks pretty close. Do you by any chance have a picture of FN's sextant box? If so, could you scan it and email me a copy? Thanks! ltm jon *************************************************************** From Ric Okay, that works. Tell you what we'll do. We'll mount a new Research Bulletin on the website with photos of the Pensacola box and also images of other sextant boxes we've come across (such as this British one). We should be able to get that done in the the next day or so. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:20:23 EST From: George Nelson Subject: Re: Saipan Island.......... Ashlito airfield was captured by units of the 2nd Battalion, 165th RCT on June 18, 1944 while the Army troops were capturing the southern portion of the island. The 25th Marines of the 4th Division were on the northern flank of this Army unit. It was only when the Army troops were driving north alongside the Marines that General Smith was relieved by Holland Smith. The source of this information is United States Army in WW II, The War in the Pacific, Campaign in the Marianas, by Philip A. Crowl, Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 60-60000. George 0580 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:05:08 EST From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: Winds OK, let's get the real story straight. Here are the speeds and directions the Itasca radiomen sent out to AE (time GMT, date July 2) 0858 NE@12 0929 NE@13 0959 NE@13 1029 ENE@12 1058 E@11 1129 E@11 1158 E@10 1228 ENE@6 1258 E@9 1400 E@8 1433 E@8 1533 E@6 1600 E@6 Speeds are in knots. To convert to local time, subtract 11.5 hrs. So 1600GMT = 0430 local time. AT 0100GMT/2, Itasca reported ENE 14 at the surface, 18ENE at 1000', 19ENE at 2000', 24 ENE at 3000', 26ENE at 4000', 25 ENE at 5000', 30 knots ENE at 6000', 30 knots ENE at 7000', and 31 ENE at 9000. The Itasca bridge logs indicate 11 knots E from 1100 to 1700 local time July 2, then ESE at 11 knots from 1800 - 2400 local time. To convert to GMT time, add 11.5 hours. I have no idea where the citing of the weather report below was obtained; perhaps the provider could shed some light on it. A quick perursal through my records does not find a corresponding date/time. As for the computer projections based upon the winds, AE most likely ended up SW of Howland, on the order of 100 miles or so, based upon the assumption of all dead reckoning navigation. The calculations only go to the time that AE says "I must be on you but cannot see you", as there is no further information available anywhere to indicate what the plane directions were. This time is about 1.5 hours prior to her last transmission, if I remember correctly. ************************************************************** From Ric The numbers I quoted > Surface - ESE at 16 knts > > 1,000 ft - ESE at 15 knts > > 2,000 ft - E at 17 knts are from Richard Black's report of observations he took on Howland on July 2nd. As I recall the observations were taken at noon (but I can't double check that right now because my copy of Black's report is loaned out). I think that it's important that we understand exactly what's going on here and what bearing these various observations may have on the Earhart flight. Itasca only knows what the wind is doing at Howland, so when it reports winds at the surface to Earhart during the middle of the night when she is still hundreds of miles to the west, that information may or may not resemble what is actually happening at her location and at her altitude. In order to get winds aloft information, somebody has to release a weather balloon and track its progress optically. For that you need daylight and a relatively clear sky. The 0100 GMT July 2nd observation would have been taken at 13:30 local time on July 1st (subtracting 11.5 hours). At that time Earhart had been in the air for only an hour and was about 2,400 miles away. Not a terribly relevant report. Black's observations are more useful but stop at 2,000 feet because the cloud base was at 2,650 feet and, of course, he lost sight of the balloon. The Itasca deck log observations don't quite agree with Black's (E at 11 knts versus ESE at 16 knts). I don't know how to resolve that discrepancy. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:37:35 EST From: Mike Everette Subject: Noonan and Radio In response to speculation regarding Fred Noonan possibly having a radio license: I am not an expert, by any means, on Bureau of Air Commerce/CAA regulations from this period... however, I do not believe Noonan would have had such a license. Reasons: The exam for the Second Class Radiotelegraph is a very tough one (I know, because I took it and passed it; I have the license) which focuses on a lot of technical matters and radio theory, with lots of formulas and math problems of a theoretical nature (and presented in a manner which will drive you out of your mind, because those who designed the test figured out every mistake you can make to get a wrong answer -- and four of the five choices are WRONG) which an airman simply does not need to know. It also focuses, in another part of the exam (one of the Elements) on international communications practices such as the charge rate per word for radiograms, schedules of priority for message traffic, etc.etc. In short, this license is the document which is required of shipboard radio officers. For aircraft radio operators, aboard commercial aircraft, not only was the license required, but also an "Aircraft Radiotelegraph Endorsement." This exam (which I studied for and could have easily passed, but due to a bureaucratic screw-up by the FCC I was not given the opportunity to take it) focuses on radio procedures aboard aircraft.... but it also contains a great many questions dealing with aerial navigation, particularly involving electronic nav-aids like the radio compass, Loran, radar, VOR, etc. Now mind you, I took my exam many, many, many years after the period we are dealing with in the AE matter... but I suspect the character of the basic (no-aviation) Radiotelegraph exams was not much different. I simply cannot imagine a pilot or even an aerial navigator taking such a test. Recall that in the 1930s, radio aids to navigation were pretty much in their infancy. I could perhaps see a navigator needing a Third-class Radiotelegraph license. Much less technical stuff... plus, a much lower code speed requirement. The third-class test has a requirement -- send and receive -- of 10 words per minute. The Second class has a 20-wpm requirement (a quantum leap, I assure you...) and the aircraft radiotelegraph endorsement carries an additional morse proficiency requirement of 25-wpm (that's "shaggin' along," folks...). What about a First-class? That is only available to the holder of the Second, who has at least a six-months' service record aboard a seagoing vessel, plus the additional code requirement of 25-wpm send and receive. Without reading up on the rules a bit, I am not even sure there is any service history in aviation which qualifies one for the First Class. There are not many Aircraft Radiotelegraph operators any more. Most communication (almost all) is by single-sideband voice, and the radios are actually about 90% computer, which means there is no need for a technician to "tune" them any more... plus, you couldn't repair them in flight, today, if you wanted to. In response to another recent posting asking why "quieter" VHF radio frequencies were not used on this flight: There was no VHF aircraft radio in 1937. VHF was largely developed by the British, for air combat purposes. In fact, when the USAAF arrived in England in 1942, NO American plane carried VHF radios. Once we discovered how superior the British crystal-controlled, fixed-channel VHF gear was to the "coffee grinder" high-frequency gear we had, the USAAF adopted the British radios outright... even had contracts let to duplicate them in the USA. This was the famous SCR-522 radio... and, if you get the chance to actually touch one (they are getting to be rare antiques) you will note that the radios carry dual nomenclature tags: US Army Signal Corps (black), and British Air Ministry (red). For whatever that is worth.... Any more questions? I'll try to answer 'em. 73 Mike E. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:42:08 EST From: Vern Klein Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise A thought about a search for sextant boxes or other navigational instrument boxes -- maybe with numbers on them. We might try a scatter-gun approach with a mailing and/or E-mail contact with everyone we found who might encounter such things: Dealers, museums, etc. Everything we can identify and continuing with others as we find them. Someone may already have something. A mailing or an E-mail, if an E-mail address is known, might be something like: ************************* BE ALERT! for navigational instrument boxes with stencilled or handwritten numbers. Especially numbers similar to 3500. You may have the key to the mystery of what happened to Amelia Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan, when they vanished in the South Pacific in 1937. ************************** If we can come up with a TIGHAR approved message, I'll do it. *************************************************************** From Ric You just did. Go for it. You might add, "For more information see the latest Earhart Research Bulletin on the TIGHAR website at http://www.tighar.org" I'll get something mounted by tomorrow. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:51:57 EST From: Dave Kelly Subject: Winds aloft Pilots and navigators are trained to cope with winds aloft. Yet, the wind velocitites may be stronger than originally forecast (been there..done that!) I would imagine that a thin overcast, or some substantial cumulus clouds, with their associated turbulence and complete sky obscuration, would hamper a celestial navigation effort. There was little radio contact during the night hours, and Fred could have been, well, incapacitated, or asleep. At some time in the morning, there was a sun line calculated that provided the LOP. It was at this time that navigational errors, unforecast winds, sky conditions, a low fuel state, and fatigue combined to create the mystery we now labor to solve. ************************************************************** From Ric Whether by good navigation or plain dumb luck ( I prefer the former explanation) the flight appears to have reached the general vicinity of Howland pretty much on schedule. We have no evidence that cloud cover interfered with celestial observations during the night. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:56:27 EST From: Bob Sherman Subject: MISC Ric wrote: >Come to think of it, if the real point of what we're doing is to draw >attention to something we feel is important then The Earhart Project is - >ta da! - a publicity stunt. Those on the home front also serve. Put me down to also serve... on the home front that is... Bare with me on that. Do you suppose she was a poor speller on purpose.....? That could be a crucial point. Regards, RC *************************************************************** From Ric You mean AE? If AE ever spelled something incorrectly I'd bet that it was on purpose. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:23:52 EST From: Jack J. Subject: Re: Saipan Island I intended that you, as the moderator and a gentleman, would smooth over the slight to the Marines in the posting that erroneously stated that the Marines were not present on Saipan. They did indeed make the very kind of frontal assault you mention in your "compliment." They are a sensitive bunch, and I think you may have stirred the cauldron rather than extinguish the flames. As long as you don't mind the controversy this old ARMY Sgt. (three hard stripes) will add his two bit worth. As Paul Harvey says, "And heres the rest of the story." The women on Saipan were told by their Japanese "protectors" that the US Marines would rape and brutalize them if they successfully invaded and took Saipan. Many of the women on Saipan went to the cliffs and threw themselves onto the rocks, and the sea below, rather than be captured by the invading US forces. The women of Saipan chose death over the possibility of going to bed with a Marine. And that's the truth!!!! Getting back to AE. There was a story in the Cleveland Plain Dealer back in the early 1980s about a Marine Corps Intelligence Officer who directed two Marines to dig up two bodies on Saipan, after it was emancipated. When one of the Marines asked what the deal was, the officer purportedly asked the Marine if he had ever heard of AE. The officer concluded the conversation with "that is all I can say." Again, I am not now, nor have I ever been a conspiracy type. I will send you a copy of the story for your files if you so desire, sir. There is a little more to the story you may at least find interesting. If I remember correctly, there is a big sign at the front gate of Fort Benning that says "Follow Me." Well, sir, you can take the "point" in re "Marines on Saipan"---or NOT!!!!!! Garonamo! (Was that the name of that Indian?) LTM Jack J. *************************************************************** From Ric I trust that it has been made clear through several learned posts to the forum that the Marines were not only on Saipan but that the Army did not particularly distinguish itself in that action. On the other hand, I share the sentiments of the women of Saipan. As a graduate of the Benning School For Boys I well remember the motto of "Follow Me!" There was another lesser-known motto for the Officer Candidate School which was taken from scripture "And a little child shall lead them." That Indian's name was Geronimo (the Spanish form of Jerome) and, as I'm sure you know, he seems to be the patron saint of the airborne but I, for one, do not jump out of perfectly good airplanes. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:12:10 EST From: Tom Robison Subject: Shoes and such One of the most intriguing elements of the artifacts found on Niku is the "Cat's Paw" heel and other shoe parts. Was brainstorming with myself tonight about the shoe parts, and who could have left them there if Amelia did not, trying to shoot down any other theory that might result in American-made shoe parts being found on that island. It occurs to me that a Japanese or other Asian person might wear shoes of a size that we of the Anglo race might consider to be that of a woman. Question 1) Do we know if ANY Asians were on Niku in the 1930s? Not only Japanese military, but fishermen, adventurers, explorers, merchant marine, etc. Question 2) Do we know if the company that made the "Cat's Paw" shoe heel exported their products to any Asian countries? You can see where I'm headed here... a Chinese merchant mariner got his shoes fixed in Hong Kong (with "Cat's Paw" heels) then later fell overboard near Niku. Or, a Japanese submarine put a small patrol on Niku to examine the island. The sub sailed off, had an accident and sank, and the patrol was marooned. Yes, the brain is working overtime tonight. The prime question is, was the "Cat's Paw" heel exported to the Orient in the 1930s? Was it even exported to Hawaii or Australia? LTM, Tom #2179 *************************************************************** From Ric The shoe was judged by the Biltrite Company to be a woman's shoe because of the tightness of the stitching holes in the sole and the small diameter of the brass shoelace eyelet. We don't know whether or not Cat's Paw heels were exported but if we're going to construct hypothetical scenarios for which there is no evidence whatsoever we can have an American woman stowaway who becomes despondent jump overboard from a passing ship only to wash up on the shores of Nikumaroro and die there. That is only marginally more fantastic than the Japanese patrol from a submarine marooned on Nikumaroro, one of whom happens to being wearing an American woman's shoes. Some time ago when we were first trying to evaluate the bones and artifacts found by Gallagher I constructed a tongue-in-cheek scenario which attributed the material to the wreck of the Norwich City. It's pretty silly but it does illustrate the lengths can go to to find alternative explanations. The Story of Cecil Cecil was fed up. For months he had endured the jibes of his fellow sailors. Although of short, stocky, muscular build, he preferred to wear women's blucher-oxford style shoes. What business was it of theirs? Cecil loved those shoes. He had even had the heels replaced last year when he was in the States. The only thing he loved more was his sextant, which he carried with him everywhere. Then came that terrible night when the ship went aground at Gardner Island. Crashing seas and fire and panic all around. But Cecil saw this as his big chance. Grabbing his blucher-oxfords, his beloved sextant, a Benedictine bottle, a spare pair of shoes, and a can of food - he leapt into the pounding surf. Reaching the beach, he hid in the bushes while the other 24 survivors searched high and low for anyone else who might have made it ashore. Finally, they accepted that poor Cecil must have been among the eleven crew members who drowned. Over the next five days Cecil remained hidden and was careful not to be spotted by the two ships which arrived to rescue his shipmates. When they finally left, Cecil was at last at peace. He lived among the crabs and the Boobies, prancing about the island in his blucher-oxfords and playing with his sextant until that horrible day out at the reef edge when he slipped nd dropped the sextant into the ocean. Life just wasn't worth living. The empty box was a constant reminder of his heartache. The end came peacefully, witnessed only by his pet turtle Stanley who also died of a broken heart. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:13 EST From: Roger Kelley Subject: Re: Saipan Island..... Ric wrote: > Let me get this straight. You're asking a former Army officer to say > something nice about the Marines. Okay, anything for the cause. I'll give it > a shot. > > Whenever there's a need for a frontal assault, thank God for the Marines. Oh man! (As I stomp my foot on the ground.) Now don't get me started.... Let's find Amelia, copy that?? Roger Kelley, #2112 ************************************************************** From Ric (uh oh) Just kidding - uh - Semper Fi - uh - Halls of Montezuma - uh - A Few Good Men. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:18:39 EST From: Dick Pingrey Subject: Winds at Destination It would appear that the winds observed near the expected time of AEs arrival were shifting from out of the southeast toward the northwest as you went higher in altitude. If most of the latter portion of the flight was at or about 10,000 ft the wind could have been out of the northwest or even the north. This might well put the airplane south of the intended track. Dick Pingrey 908C ************************************************************** From Ric I'll buy that. (I just love knowledgable speculation that fits our hypothesis.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:22:49 EST From: Jim Tweedle Subject: Re: Editing Suzanne Tamiesie wrote: >I heartily endorse G. Kastner's suggestion and Pat's inclination to more >vigorously edit the forum to eliminate those postings which have no scientific >basis. >************************************************************** >From Ric >Yes Ma'am. From Jim, Why?? Don't most of us have enough sense to edit for ourselves? The primary benefit of free speech is that it reveals the character of the speaker. LTM, Jim ************************************************************** From Ric Exactly. And once the character of some speakers has been revealed it becomes apparent that the best thing to do, in the interest of getting the important work done, is to edit them. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:30:49 EST From: Don Neumann Subject: Winds ou wrote: Ric wrote: >The real problem, in my estimation, was that their failure to obtain a >DF bearing on the Itasca (or vice versa) left them not knowing which way >to turn on the line of position. Makes all the more compelling the argument that Noonan would have suggested that A.E. turn South on the LOP. Simply looking at his charts & calculating the distances involved, against estimates as to amount of fuel remaining & rate of fuel consumption, together with the difficulty anticipated in navigating a course back to the Gilberts (since he did not have any way of accurately determining exactly where they were), the most simple & direct course would be to follow the Sun Line he had charted to the SE (the only accurate information that he could presume to rely upon) which, even if they were already South of Howland, would lead them into the Phoenix Islands showing on his charts, giving them their best (& only) chance of any landfall, if in fact they had already "missed" Howland! Turning North on that Sun Line, if they were already North of Howland, would have provided only open ocean, with the Marshalls too far to the NW & out of their fuel range to even hope for any alternate landfall in that direction. One other question, if in fact the winds they encountered during the night, west of Howland, were blowing towrd the WNW, wouldn't Noonan have calculated a "bias" toward approaching Howland from South of the island rather than from North of the island? Don Neumann *************************************************************** From Ric Many people have postulated that Noonan would have offset his intersection with the advanced Line of Position so that he would know for sure which way to turn on the line. There is, of course, no way to know whether or not he did that. But the plan was to use DF to provide the final fine-tuning of the navigation. By the time it became apparent that they would get no help from DF they were already at the line. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:43:55 EST From: Jerry Hamilton Subject: Dem Bones Seems to me that tracing the bones in the kanawa box ought to be high on the to-do list at this point, given the info turned up in England recently and the anthropological analysis. What's happening and is anything needed to help move things along? blue skies, -jerry ************************************************************** From Ric Much is happening and much help is needed. I've just completed a detailed synopsis of the work planned for the coming year, complete with dates, team composition, and costs. within a couple of days, after some final tweeking, I'll be posting it to the forum, mounting it on the website, and hiring a dozen T-6s to write it in the sky over major cities. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:48:08 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise I've captured images of most of the sextants I've looked at, in case some are gone from the auction sites, so after you get the section set up I'll email you any that you might not have. I think you've got or seen most of the really good ones. Also, I've been looking into Negus, and apparently he started in New York making a "log" device (counter with a spinner on the end of the line) during the 1900's. I've found a few references to such things, but have nothing yet on the company itself. Likewise with Ludolph, I've found a couple of British/English auction houses on line with Ludolph sextants for sale (alas no pictures), but one which described: "A W.Ludolph brass lattice frame sextant/German, 1920's/Signed by W. Ludolph A.G. Bremerhaven, Welag XXII 301, with silvered scale from 0 - 165, [...], with accessories in a fitted mahogany case with certificate dated 2/7/23." Another site referenced Ludolph in Hamburg, but no time frame on the instrument. Ludolphs do seem to be well regarded though, the Ludolphs were running about a hundred pounds (sterling) more than the English sextants at the same auction houses. LTM, jon *************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Jon. So far I have the British box, the other German box, and Bill Moffet stopped by today with his USN WWII box which we photographed. And of course we have photos of the Pensacola box. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:55:13 EST From: Dennis McGee Subject: winds aloft Are we spending too much time on this winds aloft problem? While it is a good exercise in applying the lessons of a disciplined thought process, I'm not too sure it will push us any farther toward a solution of the AE/FN mystery. I would think the winds aloft issue is moot -- AE and FN didn't make it to Howland. It is certainly a good sidebar to the overall story and important when the tale is told chronologically. But in the end, whether the winds aloft were 11 or 14 knots from the east-northeast or from due northeast is academic. If TIGHAR eventually proves its AE/FN-Niku theory, are the exact winds aloft that important, especially since AE/FN may have wandered around for up to 4-5 hours before they put the Electra down? Determining the winds aloft would be essential if you were trying to determine a likely landing spot for the aircraft, but we already have one. So, what are you getting at? LTM, who is confused about winds aloft Dennis McGee #0149 **************************************************************** From Ric I think we tend to chew on things like the winds aloft and what happened and didn't happen on Saipan because we're constantly reviewing and re-examining the scant available evidence to make sure that we haven't missed something. Also, the forum is a beast that must feed. Sometime we have new information to chew on and digest. When we don't we tend to regurgitate old stuff and chew it some more. (Sorry about the imagery. It just sort of came out that way.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:56:55 EST From: Duncan MacKinney Subject: OT: Amy Johnson OK, I know this is off-topic but I couldn't resistasking such a knowledgeable forum. Recently in its daily history segment, my local paper mentioned that pioneer aviatrix Amy Johnson had been lost on that day in 1941. A quick search of the WWW revealed only the following reference: http://www.things.org/music/al_stewart/history/flying_sorcery.html. Can your readership point me to a more comprehensive history (either WWW or print)? By the way, a quick look at the Purdue University archives suggests that AE knew Johnson - but I guess you already knew that. Duncan Wollongong, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:07:59 EST From: Yancy Qualls Subject: Re: Saipan Island "I, for one, do not jump out of perfectly good airplanes." When was the last time you saw a perfectly good airplane? Yancy Qualls Lockheed Martin *************************************************************** From ric Why do I do this to myself? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:06:02 EST From: Dennis McGee Subject: Geronimo II Ric said: >That Indian's name was Geronimo (the Spanish form of Jerome) >and, as I'm sure you know, he seems to be the patron saint of the airborne but >I, for one, do not jump out of perfectly good airplanes. I did . . .once. Fortunately I did not blow chow at about 5,000 feet, which is a common practice I'm told. But I did see AE's profile in a corn field below as I screamed through 10,000 feet, shook hands with FN while plummeting past the 6,000-foot level and passed a errant sextant box just before I pulled the ripcord. The jump plane was a Beech King Air, N16020. What a trip, huh? LTM, who also refuses to jump from perfectly good airplanes Dennis McGee #0149 *************************************************************** From Ric I get this awful feeling that I've started another off topic thread. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:40:44 EST From: Pamela Subject: Re: Geronimo II Our ancestor Geronimo beleived that nothing could touch him as far as harm. He had a vision in his vison quest to that effect. Bullets seemed to bounce off this great warrior. That's why when we jump etc. we yell Geronimo. This is for whoever cares. Love to Mother ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:48:44 EST From: Tom van Hare Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise Ric wrote: > Moffet stopped by today with his USN WWII box which we photographed. Quick question: are there any numbers stenciled on the outside of the USN box and what year was it issued/produced? Thomas Van Hare *************************************************************** From Ric Nope. No markings of any kind except a brass plaque attached to the front with model number, serial, USN, etc. engraved on it. The instrument and box (serial number of sextant was on the plaque on the box) were manufactured in 1944. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:52:50 EST From: Gene Dangelo Subject: Re: Sextants, Reprise You might find this interesting and/or even useful. Today at my school, a fellow teacher (who was also, by coincidence, a former Navy Radioman) gave me an unusual catalog of former Soviet and other Military artifacts, called the "Sovietski Collection," which may be purchased from the catalog. One of the the items is a new sextant, which comes in a dovetailed-cornered wooden box. It costs a few hundred dollars. However, with it is listed a separate book, called "The Sextant Handbook," which deals with sextants of the past and their operation. The book costs only sixteen dollars. If this is by any means new information and you'd like more, let me know, and I'll gladly post it! Never a dull moment! Best Regards, Gene Dangelo #2211 :) *************************************************************** From Ric Sounds like the same book that Bill Moffet has (right Bill?). Interesting book. It mentions that it was definitely cool to have a German sextant. You might occasionally use a Japanese or an English instrument but you wouldn't let your friends catch you doing it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:56:51 EST From: Tom Van Hare Subject: Re: Noonan and Radio Mike Everette wrote: > if you get the chance to actually touch one (they are getting > to be rare antiques) you will note that the radios carry dual > nomenclature tags: US Army Signal Corps (black), and British > Air Ministry (red). Remember when I was talking about interservice procurement? Someone discounted it out of hand, pointing out the interservice rivalries between USA and USN. Admittedly, wartime changed a lot of things, but civilian contractors were civilian contractors -- they produced equipment and sometimes both services bought it. Sometimes, even complete airplanes were marketed to both services and were dual designated. Thomas Van Hare ************************************************************** From Ric PB4Y-1 and B-24 SBD and A-24 R4D and C-47 etc., etc ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:03:25 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Shoes and such Ric, Well, having just read this (The Story of Cecil), I'm glad to know that the mystery is finally solved, and we can get on about other things. Too bad about Stanley, though... LTM, jon ************************************************************** From Ric Yeah. Bummer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:14:42 EST From: ply1 Subject: AE's spelling Ric wrote: >If AE ever spelled incorrectly I'd bet that it was on >purpose. Yes, she had a unique shorthand version of writing and spelling that began early on, such as this paragraph from her school girl days: Your letter was scrummy So long and joysome. I'll send you the translation of your Cicero. I'm a shark. ...Your letter was very funny. I lawffed ex'cessively. And this example from her wedding day: Dear GP, There are some things which should be writ before we are married. Things we have talked over before,_ most of them. ************************************************************** From Ric We actually got onto this somewhat off-topic subject by accident because Jim's original posting was a reference to the female person who made reference to our making cold winter nights "bareable." However, you're right about AE. Whatever her faults she was certainly literate. Her Shakespearian "Denmark's a prison" remark about being stuck in Lae is another example. You can't even find that one in Bartlett's. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:32 EST From: Andrew McKenna Subject: Hooks >Interestingly, the British box has very similar hooks except that they >point in the opposite direction from the German box. Are you sure that the photo isn't just reversed? amck *************************************************************** From Ric That wouldn't make any difference. If the hooks point out, they point out. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:08 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Trivia I am sure this will in no way help in the quest, but I found something which the group may find interesting (if you haven't already discovered it on your own). It seems, during the 1930's there was a lady named Nellie Simmons Meier who was a palmist. She published a book, Lions' Paws: The Story of Famous Hands. Among those whose hands she examined was AE. Upon completion of the book, Ms. Meier donated her notes and the original palm prints to the Library of Congress. At http://memory.loc.gov/ enter "Earhart" in the simple search box, and it will take you to a screen where you can access the file. When you get to the synopsis, click on the graphic of the report page, and follow the leads. I selected the "higher resolution jpeg" format, and saved the two pages of original typewritten report, and two pages of hand prints to my hard drive. Like I said, not going to solve the mystery, but a real treat to see. Who knows it might have saved Mrs. Bolan (was that her name?) a lot of grief! ltm jon *************************************************************** From Ric Irene Bolam wouldn't permit herself to be fingerprinted to disprove Gervais' allegations. She refused to dignify them by submitting to that. Amelia did dabble in the occult. She and Jackie Cochran thought they had ESP and AE's departure date from Miami may have been influenced by her horoscope. It's not hard to imagine her going to a palmist. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:29:29 EST From: Bob Subject: Re: Noonan and Radio To: Mike E. In the 30s, all Pan Am Captains were required to possess a Radiotelegraph Second Class License. The company had training classes to prepare them for the tests. The research done here on Noonan shows that he was a very intelligent man. He went from school drop out to Merchant Marine Captain without any formal training. I think he would have also been able to obtain the license. I have known several that obtained that license when they were teenagers. Pan Am Flight Radio Officers (FRO), had the Radiotelegraph Second Class license. The FCC would not give them credit for time/experience, on that license, for a Radiotelegraph First Class license because they were not sending telegrams for the passengers like the Radio Officers on ships did. This was always a sore spot with the FROs. LTM Bob **************************************************************** From Ric But is it believable that a guy who once had the expertise to get that license could, within just a couple of years, be able to only "recognize an individual letter sent several times" (as Chater says)? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:30:55 EST From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: Winds at Destination Actually, what is important to winds aloft to a pilot is the relative position of the true winds to that which he is expecting, assuming he has only dead reckoning to rely upon. If he thought the winds were even more from the north, and accounting for that, he would have ended up to the north if the winds were more easterly or southerly. The oppositie is true. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:33:48 EST From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: Winds A bit of winds clarifications. Wind aloft info was taken at noon (local time) at Howland, which was at +10.5 time zone, the same as Honolulu. The report provided below at 0100GMT was the radio time, and the reported time of observations was at 0000GMT. Itasca bridge log winds were recorded as force levels, and conversion factors work out to 11 and 16 knots, which was the finest resolution available from USCG vessels. Thanks for the info on the Black report. I found the original radio report in the radio logs of the Itasca: Surface 16 knots ESE, 15 knots ESE at 1000', and 17 knots E at 2000 feet, max height is 2650. Observations were made at 11AM local time. The purpose of the wind reports was to indicate what the effect of the Itasca's smoking would be. Unfortunately, we do not seem to have much data after 6AM local time until 10 AM local time that is meaningful. However, the trend is for the wind to die down late in the pre-dawn hours, slowly spinning up after dawn. General directions are from the ESE. Based upon this information and knowledge of where the Itasca lays off Howland in the picture (showing her smoking), the smoke is going in the right general direction almost immediately from the stack and does not rise rapidly up to elevation. This is consistent with approx. 10 knot winds. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:38:34 EST From: Tom Robison Subject: Good Airplanes >When was the last time you saw a perfectly good airplane? >Yancy Qualls, Lockheed Martin That's about the most incredible question I could ever imagine coming from the keyboard of a LockMart employee! The answer, of course, is "The last time I saw a C-130!" Tom #2179 -|- --x-x-(o)-x-x-- Herks Forever! Tom Robison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:40:34 EST From: Hugh Graham Subject: Re: OT: Amy Johnson > Recently in its daily history segment, my local paper mentioned that > pioneer aviatrix Amy Johnson had been lost on that day in 1941. A quick > search of the WWW revealed only the following reference: > http://www.things.org/music/al_stewart/history/flying_sorcery.html. > > Can your readership point me to a more comprehensive history (either WWW or > print)? Try Amy Johnson papers at http://libnet.wright.edu/staff/dunbar/arch/ms177.htm Hope this helps. HAGraham 2201. **************************************************************** From Ric The Earhart Forum knows all, tells all. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:49:41 EST From: Dave Bush Subject: Re: Geronimo II > LTM, who also refuses to jump from perfectly good airplanes > Dennis McGee #0149 > > *************************************************************** > > From Ric > > I get this awful feeling that I've started another off topic thread. Ric: You hit it on the head. My first jump was at 300 feet out of a C-141 Starlifter (4 engine jet belonging to the Air Force) and I was in the Officer's Club the night before the jump and saw how much alcohol the pilots were putting away. Being a pilot, I figured it was better to jump out of a perfectly good airplane than put myself at the mercy of one of their landings! Fortunately, no one was hurt anyway and we all had good landings. Though I am sure the pilots landings were at least as rocky as mine! Well, on to more important things. Did AE/FN carry parachutes along? Would have made good rescue panels. Love To Mother, Dave Bush #2200 ************************************************************** From Ric Nice save. Back on topic. "Last Flight" says that they left their parachutes in Darwin, Australia - but local newspaper articles clearly describe the two Irvin parachutes that had been sent to Darwin for Earhart to pick up when she got there, and a photo taken in Darwin shows AE and Fred standing by the cabin door with a pile of stuff that includes two 'chutes. On loading or off loading? No way to be sure. Even if they picked up parachutes in Darwin, there's no way to know whether they kept them on board for the Lae/ Howland leg. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:56:31 EST From: Laura Hall Subject: Discovering Archaeology Below is the URL for the new publication, Discovering Archaeology with a feature story on Amelia. http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/ LTM, Laura Hall **************************************************************** From Ric Thanks Laura. I didn't know it was available on line. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:03:41 EST From: Dave Bush Subject: Re: Geronimo II Myths and legends. Per an article I read about Geronimo, he built a myth about the bullets bouncing off. As a child, the Indian children played a game similar to cops and robbers, using play arrows dipped in dye and blunted to prevent serious injury they would shoot each other. Geronimo would "paint" his body with animal grease and if he was hit, would rub in the paint quickly to make it appear he hadn't been hit. The reason that I heard for yelling Geronimo is that two people were arguing over the level of fear experienced in the jump and one told the other that he would be too scared to think straight. So they made a bet and at the moment the person was going to jump, the other one would ask him a question and he had to answer it to prove he wasn't so scared that he couldn't think. The question was asked and the correct answer came back Geronimooooooooooooooo"! I added the extra O's (maybe) for emphasis! Love to Geronimo's Mother, Dave Bush #2200 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:14:29 EST From: Jon Watson Subject: Re: Trivia First, I can't blame her. What a nuisance. I recently discovered that I have a copy of Klass' book, which was given to me a number of years ago by a family friend. Shelved and forgotten. I knew of AE's ESP interest with Jackie Cochran, but in this case, my take on the handprints is that AE was sought out to participate in the book, not the other way around. ltm jon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:56:30 EST From: John Rayfield Subject: Re: Noonan and Radio I have known several that obtained that license when they were teenagers. I obtained my 1st Class Radiotelephone License when I was 18. By that time, I also held an Advanced Class Amateur radio license (which required a code speed of 13 wpm - I could copy about 15 wpm solid). None of those tests (except the code test ) were really THAT hard. It just took some good studying. I might have gotten the Commercial ticket sooner, if I'd had a good teacher in electronics class and hadn't had to study 'on my own'. Ric wrote: >But is it believable that a guy who once had the expertise to get that license >could, within just a couple of years, be able to only "recognize an individual >letter sent several times" (as Chater says)? Not at all likely. I hadn't copied hardly any CW (code) for at least 8 years, and sat down and was up to around 18 wpm solid (from about 15 wpm solid, 8 years previous) after spending a few hours on it. Once learned, most people do not 'forget' Morse code. Anyone who was able to pass a 20 wpm test could EASILY copy at 10 to 15 wpm, MANY years later, with very little 'refreshing' of their memory, in my opinion. I would guess that within just a few hours, they would probably be back up to 20 wpm or so - depending, of course, upon the individual. If it's true that Noonan could only "recognize an individual letter sent several times", then I don't believe that he ever really 'learned' code and I don't believe that he ever held a 1st or 2nd Class Commercial Radiotelegraph license. Just my opinion. John Rayfield, Jr. Springfield, Missouri *************************************************************** From Ric That has also been my gut feeling. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:26:29 EST From: Mike Everette Subject: Noonan and radio license Thanks to Bob for setting me right, re the Pan Am requirements for their captains. Did the same extend to navigators? As a curiosity, when if ever was this requirement done away with? This puts some interesting light on the subject of Noonan and Radio... and raises some more interesting questions regarding Noonan and the AE flight. As one who has "been there and done that" with respect to the Second Class Radiotelegraph license, I do not -- repeat, do not -- agree with any assessment of someone who held that level of license as being so non-proficient in morse code that he/she "could only recognize an individual letter sent several times." The FCC commercial radiotelegraph exam consisted of both a sending and receiving test. One had to send at 20 words per minute. Sending code is not that hard (unless we may be excused for sending with such antirhythm that it sounds like bovine byproducts hitting a flat rock, or with such "creative" rhythm that one has a "fist" with a "Banana-Boat Swing"). Receiving Morse at 20 words per minute is quite another matter. It is not for the faint of heart, or for those with any questionable ability. One had to copy perfect Morse for at least one minute. The examination not only included plain-language words or text, but also numbers, punctuation marks, and -- and -- "coded groups" such as XJSRT QMFXL WYGWB etc etc.... in other words, no way to "anticipate" the next letter in a word or group. Try it some time. One doesn't simply study for this type of test, to get good enough to pass it. Morse proficiency is a skill which must be cultivated. It is a lot like learning to speak and think in another language. And 20 wpm is difficult. The theory part of this exam is an experts' level test. I agree, that anyone who took this exam and passed it had to be intelligent (and yes, that would include Fred Noonan -- and myself, thanks very much). If Fred Noonan had such a license, attesting to his radio expertise, what does that say about all the radio problems AE seems to have had? I believe AE originally wanted to have a third crew member, a radio operator -- Harry Manning. When Manning backed out of the second attempt, why could Noonan not double up as radio operator? And why did AE leave her CW key behind? Noonan would have surely known how to use it. He also would have surely known that 500 KHz was a frequency on which CW (morse) emission was employed, not voice. That knowledge is basic to a Third class license, let alone a Second. What I have always wondered, is this: If AE had Noonan aboard, an ex-Pan Am navigator who pioneered the Pacific, and who undoubtedly knew the workings and capabilities of the PAA Pacific DF net, why in the bloody blue blazes did her radio not have even one single Pan Am frequency installed? Can someone enlighten me whether either 3105 or 6210 was one of the freqs PAA used? (I bet it was not.) If it was, why did they never ask for a bearing from PAA? Let's not stop with the PAA frequency question. Why did she not have a frequency used by the Royal Navy, the French Navy, or the USN (or perhaps, the Imperial Japanese Navy -- we were not at war with Japan then), if she was to be over water -- especially in parts of the world which were not "American" skies? Well, sure, they all guarded 500 KHz... and, if Noonan was indeed radio-proficient, he could surely have established communication -- if, if, if, the aircraft had carried the proper antenna for 500, which it did not. The Western Electric transmitter she used was available in a five-frequency model, in addition to the three-frequency one she had. Those extra radio frequencies might have made a lot of difference. There are a lot of things which do not add up. Yet. 73 Mike E. **************************************************************** From Ric Indeed, things do not add up if Noonan held a Radiotelegraph License and had both theoretical and practical expertise in radio. However, we have no evidence that he had any of those things and considerable evidence that he did not. If Noonan was an experienced sailor and a crackerjack navigator who was hired by Pan am for his navigational, not his radio ability; and if his experience at Pan Am did not provide him with an in depth familiarity with the technical aspects of the Pan Am DF system; and if Earhart's world flight was never intended to rely heavily upon radio navigation; and if whatever DFing there was to be done was primarily AE's responsibility; and if no part of the world flight route except Miami to Brazil and later Hawaii to Oakland was over Pan Am territory; then things add up pretty well. LTM, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:28:47 EST From: Mike Everette Subject: Thoughts on Radio, Interservice Equipment etc Some of this may be a little off topic, and may sound like a "rant," but I had to say it. Some further thoughts on the matter of interservice equipment and/or aircraft procurement: During the war